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Japan, Olympics, and Coronavirus deception

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by deb4rockets, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    They are going to lose billions if they have it this summer so there really isn't a difference -- except saving lives.
     
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  2. malakas

    malakas Member

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    I agree. They should accept the reality and finaly begin doing their duty and protect the lives of japanese people.
    Do not treat this also as an excuse to solve the pension problem.

    I remember reading an article a while ago about Japans suicide problem.
    The governments approach was "suicides cost too much money so you should stop killing yourselves".

    Stop treating your citizens like numbers and money.
     
  3. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    They won't have a choice if the virus is still raging (and it likely will be) since few would attend.
     
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  4. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    No mention of Japan, but here's how Taiwan, HK, and Singapore are containing their threats without being bullying assholes like China.

    tl;dr- it's not their first rodeo
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-best-response.html

    I read in some Vox article I can't find anymore (not this one) that the Taiwanese would use apps to track visitors and even fine them if they strayed too far. We could certainly do that but I doubt Silly Valley would offer that solution unsolicited anytime soon.

    https://healthpolicy.fsi.stanford.e...entral-command-protect-its-people-coronavirus
     
    #24 Invisible Fan, Mar 16, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
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  5. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Not specifically about the Olympics, but I saw this about the Japanese legal system:



    It talks about a judge who apologized forty years later for sentencing a man to death that he knew was innocent. The judge felt a great deal of pressure, even though nobody ever pressured him. Rather he felt great deal of internal pressure to do what the system wanted. Rather than declare the man innocent, he declared him guilty and because of his own internal shame, then quit the bench.

    Speaks to the unspoken pressure to work towards what the system has declared to be the goal. Nobody's going to want to be the person to stand up and question the system.

    "Duty to the state, loyalty to one's group, and an incredible desire to save face."

    Whoever stands up and is the first to advocate canceling the Olympics will be buried in a mountain of shame that he will never escape.
     
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  6. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    That saving face could very well mean acting like they have kept their Coronavirus situation from escalating for months, in such a populated country. It just seems too unrealistic for a country that has so many international travelers and wealthy people.

    Now the Cherry Blossom Festival will be going on for over a month. Last year it brought into over 2,926,700 foreign visitors. I wonder how many crowds of people will be there this year. Kinda scary really.
     
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  7. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Exactly.
    Not duty of the state to protect the people but the duty of the people to do what the state wants even if they die.
    Thats what is happening in Japan now no question about it.
     
  8. WNBA

    WNBA Member

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    Japan is about the same population as Guangdong province in China. There were total 1364 cases found in Guangdong. Japan's number should not be far from it.

    The suspicious part is the recover rate:
    Japan: 171/880
    Guangdong: 1307/1364.

    This means Japan did not include or test enough mild cases, which hopefully won't make much difference.
     
  9. Major

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    Or they are just waiting longer to declare people recovered. If it was about ignoring mild cases, their death rate would be really high - but it's not.
     
  10. malakas

    malakas Member

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    What measures were enforced in Guangdong? Werent the people mostly confined in their houses ?
    Werent their temperature taken every time they used public transportation and all their recent travel history and personal data checked by officials?
    Werent people prohibited from travelling around? Or were they walking admiring the flowers?
    Werent people with symptoms forced into quarantine hotels?
    How many tests were done in Guangdong?

    In Guangdong, containment and detection measures were taken.
    In Japan doctors refuse people with symptoms tests because they have to go over 3 beauracrats.
    Millions of Japanese take the metro and public transportation every day. Only schools are closed which makes many people just bring their children along to the office.

    You think the japanese who are even famous of dying due to overwork will take a day off , if they have a cough?
    When taking a day off is considered actually offending your boss and losing face?

    If you are about to compare Guangdong with Japan might as well compare it also with countries like Russia that are "corona free".
     
  11. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    9 day increases:

    Spain 1,695 - 18,077
    Germany 1,112 - 15,320
    USA 932 - 13,847
    Japan 568 - 943
     
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  12. JumpMan

    JumpMan Member
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    The Asians are generally a lot more disciplined than us westerners, so I do believe those numbers.
     
  13. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    Japan could be saving face. They'll drag it out to the last minute then confess they knew they couldn't deliver a long time ago.

    The bigger worry is the IOC. Why haven't they cancelled it already?
     
  14. Invisible Fan

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    Board members already bought boats from their share of the sponsor gifts?
     
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  15. Major

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    What is the advantage of cancelling it now instead of in April or May? It's the same reason MLB only delayed part of their season and the NBA is looking at June and stores are only closed through mid-April, etc. There's no reason to do more - you can always cancel it later. But once you've cancelled it, you can't uncancel it.
     
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  16. Buck Turgidson

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    Nook likes this.
  17. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    Postponed until next year
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    So much for all the conspiracy theories.
     
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  19. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Japan's emergency medical system pushed to the brink
    Hospitals in Japan are increasingly turning away sick people as the country struggles with surging coronavirus infections and its emergency medical system collapses, Associated Press has reported.

    In one recent case, an ambulance carrying a man with a fever and difficulty breathing was rejected by 80 hospitals and forced to search for hours for a hospital in downtown Tokyo that would treat him. Another feverish man finally reached a hospital after paramedics unsuccessfully contacted 40 clinics.

    The Japanese Association for Acute Medicine and the Japanese Society for Emergency Medicine say many hospital emergency rooms are refusing to treat people including those suffering strokes, heart attacks and external injuries.
    Japan initially seemed to have controlled the outbreak by going after clusters of infections in specific places, usually enclosed spaces such as clubs, gyms and meeting venues. But the spread of virus outpaced this approach and most new cases are untraceable.

    Apart from a general unwillingness to embrace social distancing, experts fault government incompetence and a widespread shortage of the protective gear and equipment medical workers need to do their jobs.

    Japan lacks enough hospital beds, medical workers or equipment. Forcing hospitalization of anyone with the virus, even those with mild symptoms, has left hospitals overcrowded and understaffed.
     
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  20. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Hear no evil, see no evil?
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52466834

    Why is Japan not in lockdown? It's a question I've been asked numerous times by friends all over the world. That's not surprising given what's going on in Europe and America. But it is perhaps the wrong question. Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea and most of mainland China, have also never had full lockdowns.

    For those trying to understand what's going on in Japan, the much more puzzling question is why there is so little testing for Covid-19.

    When you look at Germany or South Korea, Japan's testing figures look like they're missing a zero.

    Take Tokyo, population 9.3 million, and centre of Japan's epidemic. Since February, just 10,981 people have been tested for Covid-19. Of those, just over 4,000 were positive.

    But those figures are striking both because the number tested is so small and because the percentage testing positive is so high.

    What it shows is Japan is only testing people who are already quite sick. In fact, the official guidelines for doctors say they should only recommend a test if the patient has pneumonia.

    That is the reason why the level of testing actually done in Japan is about half of the capacity according to a health ministry official, even weeks after the government has started to ramp up its testing.

    This is leading to some rather extraordinary stories from those trying to get tested. Jordain Haley is an American working in Japan as a business analyst and volunteer translator. Via Skype she told me what happened when she helped a friend, who doesn't speak fluent Japanese, to get a test.

    On 10 April, her friend had developed a fever and cough, but waited four days, as per the guidelines.

    "By then she was having trouble breathing and was dizzy from lack of oxygen," Jordain tells me. "I called the Covid hotline. They refused to help. They said if she's sick she should call an ambulance."

    The following day (Wednesday 15 April) her friend found a clinic where they gave her a chest X-ray. The doctor said she probably had Covid-19, but not bad enough to be hospitalised. He sent her home and told her to isolate.

    Late on Thursday night Jordain's friend called. She was in distress.

    "I could hear the EMT (ambulance crew) in the background. She was coughing and wheezing so much I couldn't make out what she was saying. It took them two hours to find a hospital that would accept her. The whole time her breathing was getting worse and worse."

    The hospital did another chest X-ray and told her friend to get tested for Covid-19 at her local health centre. But the doctor wouldn't write a recommendation. Instead she was sent home in a taxi.

    "They said she should roll down the windows in the cab, and that it would be ok," Jordain says, rolling her eyes.

    On Friday 17 April Jordain called the local health centre. For two hours she was passed from one desk to another. She answered scores of questions. Finally, she got her friend an appointment. But it came with a warning.

    "She must use the side entrance." Jordain was told. "She must not tell anyone where this testing is taking place. It could cause a commotion."

    Apart from the distress caused to someone who thinks their life is in danger, why does this matter? After all, Japan has very few deaths from Covid-19, still below 400.

    [​IMG] Image copyright Carl Court/Getty Images
    Image caption A shinkansen bullet train carriage is almost completely empty in Yokohama
    On social media I am often told: "Japan is identifying those who really need help and its medical care is excellent, and that's why so few are dying."

    This is not untrue according to Professor Kenji Shibuya of Kings College London.

    "From the physician's point of view, it makes sense," he says. "Forget about mild cases, focus on cases with major symptoms and save lives. Focus testing on those who have symptoms."

    But, says Professor Shibuya, from a public health point of view, Japan's refusal to test more widely is incredibly risky.

    He points to a study done by Keio University in Tokyo.

    Last week, the University hospital published a study of Covid tests done on patients admitted for non-Covid related illnesses and procedures. It found that around 6% of them tested positive for Covid-19.

    It is a small sample and not "generalisable". But Professor Shibuya still describes it as "very shocking".

    "We are definitely missing a lot of asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic cases," he says. "There is clearly widespread community transmission. I am very worried by this situation."

    How many? He is not sure. But based on the Keio results he thinks it could be from 20 to 50 times the official figure. That would mean between 280 and 700 thousand people might be infected in Japan.

    Without more testing it is impossible to know. But anecdotal evidence supports the idea that infections are far wider than reported.

    Among the small number of deaths are famous comedian Ken Shimura and actress Kumiko Okae. High profile infected people include seven sumo wrestlers, a TV presenter, two former professional baseball players, and a famous screen writer.

    "Currently 70%-80% of new infections recorded in Tokyo do not come from any previously known cluster," says Dr Yoshitake Yokokura, the head of the Japan Medical Association. "We need more prompt testing and we need the results more quickly."

    According to official figures, the number of new infections in Tokyo has now been falling for over a week. Good news? Not necessarily.

    "I would like to believe the numbers are really decreasing," says Dr Yokokura, "but the number of tests is insufficient to tell that."

    This has direct implications for Japan's ability to lift its state of emergency, which is currently supposed to end on 6 May.

    "It is not possible to lift the state of emergency at this stage," says Dr Yokokura. "We need a sustained decrease in new cases, and we need the reproduction rate (the number of people that one infected person will pass the virus onto, on average) to be well below one to do that."

    [​IMG] Image copyright STR/Getty Images
    Image caption Sumo events have been held behind closed doors since earlier this year
    This week Japan begins its 'Golden Week' holiday. According to the governor of Okinawa, 60,000 people have booked flights to the island during the holiday.

    Governor Denny Tamaki is pleading with them to stay away.

    "I am sorry to tell you but Okinawa is under a state of emergency," he wrote on social media. "Please cancel your trip to Okinawa now."

    The weather for the next week is looking hot and sunny. People will be tempted to head to the beaches and mountains and, without knowing it, some percentage will inevitably be taking the virus with them.

    Professor Shibuya says it is imperative that Japan now abandon its current strategy and increase testing.

    "Without much wider testing," he says, "it will be very hard to end this pandemic."​
     
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