James Harden is gonna get screwed over again in MVP Voting

I agree. I might be correlating something that isn't there, but ever since Silver took over, the NBA has never felt so contrived and "WWE"-like. It's upsetting how the media controls so much. I wish ESPN didn't exist so I could just watch pure basketball.

 

people can blame westbrook winning on some vast media conspiracy against Harden and the Rockets or some predetermined narrative for Westbrook before the season began, but the fact of the matter is... Harden was winning the MVP vote no less than two or three weeks ago. According to the poll taken by tim bontempts of over 20+ writers with votes, Harden was getting easily most of the votes. Zach Lowe, windhorst, truehoop podcast and many others have mentioned this at the time.

So what changed? In the last three weeks of the season, Westbrook put up even bigger numbers, completed three stunning comebacks complete with game winners and broke the triple double record... while Harden played terrible whether due to a wrist injury or fatigue, yet he continued to play and perform poorly and the Rockets quietly finish their season barely winning half their games over two weeks.

 

LIsten to what you just said.

Harden was winning, then suffered an injury, and lost it because of a two week stretch. Are you saying that Westbrook and the Thunder did not go through any bad stretches this season?

That's the problem.

 

That may or may not be a problem... I don't know. I do know it is human nature to care more about what just happen than what happened 2 months ago. As JVG points out, the first 2 minutes of the first quarter is just as relevant as the last 2 minutes of the fourth, but our perception is that the latter is enormously more important. Recency bias is real, and is likely and imo absoulely the reason why Westbrook will win the award (plus his performance of course) and not some conspiracy of hate against the rockets/harden or some predetermined narrative. If it was predetermined, Harden wouldn't have been winning for most of the season (according to vegas odds) and if it was some conspiracy, Harden wouldn't have been winning 3 weeks ago.

 

This is the type of MVP race that invalidates the award for me. I'm sure Harden really wants the award and I want it for him too, but when I think about these facts...

- Media members have all of the votes
- Media's entire reason for existing is for entertainment and good stories
- Media members have the power to control the narrative, i.e., casual fans' opinions, by parroting each other and incessantly pushing agendas

....I can see that the media holds literally every card. The MVP is their award, and not anyone else's. So what does being awarded MVP mean exactly? That the winner is the most "valuable"? No, that's too subjective a term. Too many different ways to argue that definition. What the MVP actually is, at the end of the day, is an award that tells the world: "This is the most popular player among the media this season". It means absolutely no more than that.

I feel comfortable holding this opinion because MVP arguments change so much every year. One year it's best player on best team, the next year it's most impressive stats, etc. The only 100% accurate assessment of what the award means is to just call it the MPP for the media. Most popular player.

If I'm Harden, I still want the MPP, but I hope he has higher goals than to just be popular. I hope he has the championship on his mind. Based on Harden saying "I thought winning is what matters most", I think he does.

 

Also Lowe, and a bunch of others didn't even submit a vote. Lowe said on the podcast he didn't vote in that poll, so accurate was it really? Additionally, That poll probably did more to hurt Harden anyway, as people thought it would be closer than the poll suggested.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/e...ce-ever-one-man-does-stand-out-from-the-rest/

the only article dumb voters need to read to make up their minds.

 

I'm watching ESPN's The Jump.


TMAC shouldn't be allowed back in Toyota Center.

 

If voters can't get past this obviously detrimental mindset, then the voting system needs to be changed.

 

Your right, Lowe on his podcast said he didn't submit a reply, but from my recollection, Bontempts on the truehoop podcast and in some articles mentioned that he got over 20 answers with Harden getting more than 2 to 1 over Westbrook.

As to how accurate that may be... also a fair point, since 20 votes isn't really a large sample size.

 

Rachen Nichols:

It's an imperfect system but time & time again has shown to be the best system available. Players are too busy playing. They show bias for their friends & players in the conference. The media is biased too. No, we don't hate your team despite what your buddy writes in the comment section. This year, more than ever, the MVP is as much about the voter as the player himself. Are you old school? Does defense really matter? Or is it like the matrix? A torrent of numbers to be collected, shifted through & analyzed? Do you love the NBA's star driven culture? I'll admit one bias I have, the arrival of Mike D'Antoni is part of what unlocked James Harden. ... I'm super wary when coaches get too much credit for what the players are doing, especially when it's a white coach & black player. Another bias, I first fell in love with basketball because the stories were so good. There's a beginning, middle & end. Super heroes & villains. Yeah, you better believe I'm susceptible to the story of Westbrook. Or Harden's more personal story of redemption. That's me.

T-Mac: I've been around this game for 20 years. I've seen a lot of greatness. But my eyes have never seen a guy average a T-D at 6'3, lose Durant & Ibaka, for him to come back motivated & get his team in the 6th spot & put up these numbers, I have to go with Russ.

Windhorst: 3 weeks ago, the Washington Post did a survey. They asked me. I voted for Kawhi Leonard. I felt good about that vote. Both sides of the ball, take him off, they're nowhere near 60. I've been so compelled by Westbrook. (Rachel: Recency bias) I'm biased by 33-9 - their record when he gets a triple-double. They're real numbers & matter. I've been around teams that lost superstar players. For the Thunder to pick themselves up, he will get my vote when I submit it tomorrow.

Rachel: Leadership is a real thing. But that puts me back on the Russ-Harden seesaw. Those are the two I'm having a hard time deciding. Harden has put up numbers we've never seen before. Leadership, the way he took responsibility for what they did last year and pushed them forward. But then you go back to Russ & it's "Come on!" It's the season of Russ.

T-Mac: Russ loses a MVP. Harden loses Howard & gains more. It's tough.

Windhorst All-NBA teams:
1st: Westbrook-Harden-Leonard-James-Davis
2nd: Curry-Paul-Giannis-Butler-Gobert
3rd: Thomas-Wall-Green-Durant-Towns

 

I mean to be fair, I think TMac's hating stems from envy. He never had the success that James is having with the Rockets. No where close. He has a better playoff PER but where did that get him. James was already better than him as a Houston Rocket in year two. I think he needs Horry next to him telling him he needs to earn those rings every show. Sad too, I used to love him as a player.

 

It's a wrap

I heard 1/3 of the MVP voters are from ESPN. 33.3333%

Congrats Russ!

 

ONE THIRD!? I thought I read somewhere they cut down their votes! a third of 100 voters is way too damn much. that can't be right.

I remain optimistic.

 

I'm watching Sportsnation

I'm convinced LZ is just attracted to Westbrook.

Marcellus had a good rebuttal saying Harden has made history too (with facts on hand). They all rolled thier eyes. I guess that's not the history they like. Macellus couldn't come back from the tired turnover counter. If he said that Steve Nash lead the league in turnovers, it would have been a "drop the mic moment". He tried..

 

I admire your optimism dreamshook. True rockets fan. But at this point im content knowing thay I believe him to be the MVP and we have a good chance to beat okc in the 1st round.

Im moving on. Id like to smack the thunder in the 1st round and see how these talking heads justify it lol

 

Sorry, but you're wrong on both counts. If you want to claim that the Spurs have a strong supporting cast by citing their record w/o Leonard, the obvious counter-argument is that Popovich strategically rested Leonard for creampuff opponents so the record is intentionally skewed. Therefore, it's not a good measure of the strength of the supporting cast. Here were their opponents for those 7 wins.:

Phoenix
Portland (without Lillard)
Brooklyn
Toronto (without Derozan)
Sacramento
Golden State (without Curry/Thompson/Durant/Green)
Dallas

What would your rebuttal to that be?

 

all 82 games are statistically worth the same.

 

Westbrook is going to win it. If I'm Harden I'm like wth do i have to do to win this MVP award. Media is all over Westbrook like they were curry. Sucks because hard3n has worked hard and deserves it. Idk if he can get any better than what he is

 

This statement has been said before, and I DO think it rings true. (aside from additional biases).

The media megastorm for Westbrook after the Dallas buzzer beater (Orlando, Denver etc). Feel like a lot of voters got caught up in it and perhaps ditched their previous measuring standards for giving the award.

Maybe this is where we are headed in the NBA and the age of social media and "embrace debate."