James Harden, first player in NBA history with two 50-point triple-doubles in a season

In terms of pro ball, sure its not too popular.

But as far as AAU goes, Houston is the Mecca for prospects.

 

You stating that "Harden is not a smart player" is in the running for dumbest post on CF so far this year.

 

You are really digging... Literally every single superstar in the NBA b!tches and moans about calls, and in fact, Harden is objectively one of the least whiny. Compare him to Kobe, Westbrook, Lebron, Dwight, etc. He was complaining a bit more than usual yesterday, but he was also getting fewer calls than usual.

Harden turns it over a lot, but considering the Rockets' pace, his usage rate, and the number of assists he racks up, it's not that bad of a number. Plus, he turns it over mostly while passing or the occasional BS charge call, not while holding the ball...

I swear, after every loss or bad game by Harden, the illogical hate ALWAYS bubbles up. Why are we sports fans so short sighted? Harden isn't perfect, but he is still arguably the very best player in the NBA at this moment, or at LEAST top three. Stop amplifying his weaknesses after every loss when there's so much else he does right.

 

Look here man there is no way I am digging when the truth is the truth...my problem with his whining is that it is at the wrong time..you know at the time he should be getting back on defense and the other team scores?

Harden turns it over a lot because he does have the ball in hands quite a bit but the truth is that most turnovers happen while passing the ball. Although he has great basketball IQ at times he makes the stupid pass or he tries so hard to get the foul and it isn't called and he starts the whining is what bothers me. He has led the league in turnovers and even set a record last year for most over and is well on his way to breaking it again. That is fact.

And I have to disagree with you on his turnovers not being a bad rate because for every 2 assists he dishes out he also gives it back with a turnover. That is detrimental to his game. 14 assists and 7 turnovers pretty much negates the positive effects of the assists. If he could maybe get to 3 to 1....

Lastly you are barking up the wrong tree if you think I am amplifying his weaknesses in losses only because I am not the one...I complain in the wins as well. I want Harden to be great but I also want him to have the motor on both sides of the ball. I want him to be great all around and not give folks reasons to short him on his greatness. He is top 3 in the NBA from an offensive skill set but he isn't top 3 in my opinion all around.... He is my top two for MVP without a doubt.

I am not hating just being objective. I even went back and looked at the game later and agreed with your statement about his chasing the 50 point game. I even initially said I wasn't mad about it if he was chasing 50 and was glad they fouled so he could get 50. Thats not hating.....

 

Again, every star player (or player in general, really) has that habit of not always getting back when they should because they're complaining about calls. Harden is no worse. I agree that I wish he wouldn't do it sometimes, but it's nothing unique about him. And sometimes, the refs really need to know when they blew a call.

And I don't think you understand how good a 2:1 A:T ratio is... There are very few people with high assist numbers that have any better of a ratio than that. Westbrook, Lebron, Curry, Durant, Wade. The list goes on. If you want any significant amount better, you basically need a Chris Paul. Aka, arguably the single greatest passer of all time. And as great of a passer as Harden is, that's not what his game is or ever will be.

 

Problem is he's not at 2:1 anymore, he's trending down towards his average. Hopefully he can get it back up

 

It's like 1.9 right now. But yes he, like the rest of the team, is in a major funk right now.

 

I don't think we can speak objectively, as we are Clutchfans.

Harden seems to have ups and downs in terms of his whining to the referees.

 

Harden has 1-2 times a game where he doesn't get a call and sarcastically looks at the refs in disbelief.

Harden also has 1-2 times a game where he gets called for a foul and goes over to the ref to complain.

That's about it. He's definitely no Draymond or Wes Matthews.

 

Well, I'll agree that he's no Draymond Green. That guy is in another world.

But he has games where I'm annoyed by how much he's trying to play for & ask for fouls. I think in the games where he isn't whining, it's because most of the calls are going his way. Eric Gordon whines a lot, too.

Doesn't mean I dislike them as players. Just something I notice occasionally.

 

time for harden get another 50 10 10 game tonite

 

Why not 81- 20-20?

 

You must be young because Chris Paul is not the single greatest passer of all time...I can think of a few that would be considered better like John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Steve Nash, Pete Maravich and Mark Jackson and White chocolate Jason Williams to name a few.....

You do know Harden owns the record for the most turnovers ever? Ever? Ever? And is on track to break the record he set last year. I love Harden and he is gifted offensively and has great court vision but I want my superstar to cut down on some of his turnovers and play just a little bit harder on defense. There is no hating in wanting that from your superstar. I want him to make a difference on both ends like he did when we played Toronto earlier with a couple of stops he created.

A 2:1 ratio is not that hard to do either...right now here is a list of players that are doing it with at least 6 assists a game.

John Wall, PG 10.3 2.47
Chris Paul, PG 9.7 4.06
LeBron James, SF 8.6 2.05
Jeff Teague, PG 8.2 2.78
Ricky Rubio, PG 8.2 3.67
Draymond Green, PF 7.4 3.15
Jrue Holiday, PG NO 7.4 2.72
Deron Williams, PG 7.1 2.92
Kyle Lowry, PG 6.9 2.41
Rajon Rondo, 6.6 2.79
Goran Dragic, 6.4 2.05
Isaiah Thomas, 6.4 2.50
Dennis Schroder, PG 6.3 2.07
Mike Conley, PG 6.2 2.79
Stephen Curry, PG 6.2 2.11
Tim Frazier, PG 6.1 3.03
TJ McConnell, PG 6.1 3.38
Nicolas Batum, SG 6.0 2.29
Elfrid Payton, PG 6.0 2.84

 

You must be young. Because you don't know what the word "arguably" means.

And if you want to take anyone on that list ahead of Harden, be my guest. Also why you would never cut it as an NBA GM.

 

Why not 101-30-30?

 

Hard to get those assists when the rest of the team is bricking.
Forcing those things makes for more turnovers as well.

Rocket River

 

I know what arguably means young brotha! But for you to say Chris Paul is arguably the best passer has makes me believe you only know about today's players. No one has ever argued he was the greatest passer ever. He can't even get out of the 2nd round so no one talks about him being great at anything. You also never gave arguments for why you believe he is known as the greatest passer ever.....

Secondly I never said I wanted to be a great GM but John Stockton, Magic Johnson and Steve Nash are all hall of famers.....

 

Assist to turnover ratio...the most useless stat in the history of the NBA.

 

If by nobody, you mean you, then I agree.

Anyways, I don't really care, maybe he's not the single greatest passer (though a case can certainly be made). He may otherwise have some of the greatest handles. Any way you want to slice it, for someone like him to have his A:T ratio in today's league given his usage rage and total assist numbers is absolutely absurd. James Harden is never going to be that, and it's silly to compare him to that.