James Dolan vs Tilman Fertitta

you really think this is just hating on how others use their money/
yu realize sme of us have been ticket holders for 20 years...before tilman, and I've beengong togames on their own before Les.
Les sucked too...I never saw people get all anal when we called him out for his ****, how he was with china, olajuwon...but he bogut in at 92 million...the league has changed, you can't "budget win" with the new big dogs

so all you're rooting for is rooting for an owner, not the team. We end up giving our money and time and the moves tillman makes don't give us flexiblity they aren't rebuilding flexiblity, its literally tax savings

you can sit an argue trevor ariza wouldn't make a difference, but can ou argue replacing him with minimums and then even trading those minimums is a good move? not evne using our bird rights?
you do get nba econiomcs right..you understand what keeping a contract alive is? So who signed Trevor? Suns...they flipepd his expiring ONE year deal(no future issues) for kelly oubre. They packaged Kelly and Rubio to get...the other guy our owner leaked was a terrible contract, Chris Paul...they went ot the finals and took a shot with no guarantees..magic can chappen

and then imagine if you were a bucks fan. Like them, they had an mvp who kept falling short. LAst year in his MVP year they lost 1-4 in the semis and looked lost and he looked like he could get clogged in the playoffs each year...WIth your logic, you would say this team showed they cant win, certainly dn't give max contracts to Middleton and Holiday..they are good but not bringing in rings, let alone max's into their 30.

Or hwo baout trading a pick for an ariza like player, Tucker. you would say hes old, scored 0 points why does EVERY caoch he has keep plying him 40 minutes....its almost like he brings more to the game than the box score shows and basketball is a little more complicated then reading a number and plug and play. You would be saying, as you did with Ariza..."they lost, he isn't worth it!" Lucky for milwaukee, you are a houston fan so you're rooting for an owner over our actual team didn't hit and they took a shot and won a ring...was anyone maybe outside the warrios guaratneed a ring or a finals? but thats the **** tilman sells to fools who still will buy his snake oil...check the transactions it doesnt match uphttps://clutchpoints.com/rockets-ne...houston-getting-under-luxury-tax-was-a-fluke/ you probably believe this too?

you do know morey had to dump a first just to get rid of knight and go under the tax. Once again, the move gave us NO flexiblity for hte future, it didnt take us under the cap...it was just for tax. We lost a first, the only beneficiary of tax savings is an owner. we did this while competing. Thats going all in? And thats on morey? So here he has an asset he can trade something good for, but he chooses to just get under the tax even thought it doesnt give us flexiblity to add talent.....is morey stupid to throw away his own asset or does he really just from the bottom of his heart want to save tilman fertitta money sas his goal.

Thats called him just doing the mandate of his job ,and you sound like one of those dudes screaming at a waiter/manager for something the owner of a restaurant changed. . Maybe thats why Tad brown, morey, harden, PJ...all left more money on the table in houston to go elsewhere. Morey doesn t ahve to have a kid follow him around and a team willing to pay tax like the other title contenders...no coincidence the players went to organizations like that too...but here you are, this hurt the team, hurt our chances, but you're defending the landrys owner not the houston rockets. Just like you said some people dont like to see how other spend, some people just bend over for power."

Lol did you see the video fo this clown telling the reporter to write he wont get help from the governemnt only to then be on video begging them to change it so he can get the help? How many owners have lied publicly about coaches extensions, to fans, blame his teammates and manager? plaster himself all over the arena? Name me ONE
Everybody wants to be led. Except for me. I want to lead." tilman quote...most likely ab

out people who work for him like you.

Love stone, we got lucky with him just like Les did with Morey. But theres a reason we couldnt hire anyone with expierience. This worked out, but you have issue with harden..I wonder what you'll say if Green pans out as a superstar and leaves if tilman does the same thing bc giannis, kobe, lebron and any other star would lave that situation just like half our ****ing staff and team did. You go on and keep rooting for Landrys, I'm rooting for who I have for decades...The Houston Rockets.

you aren't going to see milwaukee fans crying about those max contracts or trading a first for an old PJ even though it didn't 'guarantee' a finals. Or warriors fans feel bad for lacob for all his taxes even 66 million last year n a year they had no shot and knew it. but hey, some bootlickers gotta defend the billionaires so you and a couple others keep doing you. we need the diversity

 

See you got it backwards. Im the one who cares about the team and you're the one who cares about the owner.


This is shown by you giving a rats ass about Tad Brown. Do you even know what Tad Brown did for the Rox? How has his absence hurt the Rockets? You dont know right? But you still belly ache and complain because you hate Tillman. This is just full blown projection.

So you hate Les Alexander, and you hate Fertita. Big whoop. Who are you again? Do you hating on all the owners who wont spend gonna hurt them ij anyway? Would they even feel it or care that some random netizen is posting pages long replies about how much they suck? Nah. They dont give a ****. If you hate Fertita just do both of us a favor and go follow some other team. Cuz Fertita will still be the owner regardless how you feel about it. Its either you are ok with him and stay or not ok with him and leave. Its that simple. Put your actions where your mouth is.

For me I'm ok with Fertita. Not paying tax for Ariza may have hurt the team but as we have seen from Ariza's play he sucked ass and highly unlikely he would be the difference for a roc championship. Which star has Tillman refused to oay? He extended cp3 to a big deal, approved WB trade and then later Wall trade. Oladipo too. The dude pays when its a star. When its a scrub like old ass Ariza or Ryan Scrubberson ok he doesnt wanna oay tax. Thats not a deal breaker to me.

You just post pages full of crap but dont read other people's reply. Did you even investigate why we had Knight on the roster? Did you even think to investigate that far before you wrote a 1 page reply???

Why did we have Knight on the roster????? Isnt it because we had to dump Ryan Anderson who Morey signed to 18M???? So why dont you blame Morey for signing scrubs to big money first? You gloss over that and skip straight to Tillman not paying up for Scrubberson's bad salary.

Like I said check out Rox draft history. From 2014-2021 they had 0 FRPs. Thats not on Tillman thats on Morey as Tillman arrived 2019.

Morey dumped picks for Ty Lawson, for Cp3 for Sweet Lou. None of those guys panned out and they were shipped 1-2 years earlier. The time the Rox had clean capspace Morey blew it on Ryan Scrubberson and EG. Thats why the Rox had no capspace. Why jo assets? Because Morey traded all our guys bev, harrell, 2 frps and sweet lou for 1 yr of Cp3, then signed Cp3 to a max deal. Those are bad moves on top of bad moves. Fixating on 1-2 low frps to save money lol....have you heard of Paretto Principle??? Look it up, it'll allow you to make better decisions in life.

You say you are already old but your reasoning is like a child, just can see 1 level deep. Oh noes Tillman didnt pay 15M for Ariza of course he the reason the Rox didnt win. Wtf dude. Look up what RCA is before you post so much crap.

Again I'm a rockets fan, I care about the Rox and the Rox are in a great state right now with Green, Sengun and 1 more tank season on the way. The fact that you still bellyache and grumble and complain shows you arent a rocket fan, you just a tillman hater. You dotn care about the young talent the Rox have and you dont care about Stone Cold balling it out of the park, all you care is about is Tillman this Tillman that, Morey this Morey that, Tad Brown this Tad Brown that. ****ing Tad Brown, gimme a break. Thats how you know who are the ones who care about the Rox team, when they dont give a rats ass about Tad freaking Brown. I liked Morey but now he is not on the Rox so he is a stranger to me. Why? Because Im a rockets only fan. How about you? Too strongly attached to Morley and Tad Brown who you didnt even know till he left? I'm the rockets fan here not you, excuse me.

So why dont you go to Landrys and leave a bad review or something? Maybe somebody from Tillman's team will respond to you then. All your posts are about Tillman you are the one here obsessed with him lmao.

 

cmon man, quit the twitter/high school bs. ...I hate les? i hate tilman? its an odd bar because we all critisize our players or think about what them and coaches need to do better...its almost like we just want the team to be good...go figure..and I'm sorry its not with soft hands and snowflake talk for you millenials who can't understand that being objective doesn't mean you hate em.

as you mentioned, i've called les out. Bc i know or hate him? Bc i want him to change ownership? no bc i want the rockets to be good, but that doesnt excuse him from treating hakeemthat way...that is indefensible. his pandering to china and generalyl cheap ways..how did he get away with it? Well when les bought the team. Michael ****ing Jrodan was making 2 million...right now Duncan robinson is making 20 million...the game has changed as has the money involved, follow me? So les even has paid tax once, but was generalyl cheap and daryl was his way for a best bang for buck team. daryl is an employee, he doesnt make the final decision.

Now with tilman. You seem to have learned simple math and can't see past one step. Thats why i say, the way you talk about role players, well go back..did you know it was paxon, kerr, fisher, kenny smith, robert horry, so on and on every single year non headling role players who make vital plays...you do get this isn't baseball there is a matter of cohesion? So to cheap out on those margins and depths may work for casula fans who just want 'stars' but in the nba, if you want to win a ring you have to take risks and take a shot...anyone saying they'll guarantee a finals is probably also selling you a bridge.

Ok so lets talk ariza, but try not to do simple math
first we could resign him for a ocntract we all agree was much, but it was one year so no future risk. you think hes worthless, but then againyou wouldnt hve taken pj tucker if youre the bucks bc you can't comrpehend why they keep playing him 40 minutes more than lopez or anyone even when he has 0 points. So ariza adds more than his stats, he doesn't shoot much thats not his contribution

so i guess you can decide and listne to chris paul, who calls trevor ariza the x factor and glue guy, or i guess you and tilman fertitta know hoops more...its probably something you can just step on throats for?
https://spacecityscoop.com/2020/07/01/chris-paul-trevor-ariza-costly-houston-rockets/https://spacecityscoop.com/2020/07/01/chris-paul-trevor-ariza-costly-houston-rockets/

so thats what you're overlooking. So either we keep him and as paul wanted run it back, he kept things smooth with harden. one year risk, lets say hes worth 8 million his previous contractwith no raise...so in this case in the nba with 100 million check we are just paying a one year one time 7 million fee just to run it back, most owners would take that.

No more important, PLEASE ANSWER THIS, you keep over looking it...keeping the contract alive. we let him leave, we hve no way of signing anyone above the minimum. We keep him, we keep his contract and just like phx did we have the option to trade him

now lets look at those two paths...They took ariza, we didn't...they took his contract traded to kelly oubre....kelly/rubio were packged to chris paul(antoher guy tilman leaked as terrible contract but suns were willing to pay)...Suns went to the finals last year and the Rockets were at the bottom of the rankings....notice how you may be cheering for the wrong thing? or not getting nba economics that it isn 1+1 with Ariza

2) who did we replce ariza with ?

JAmes ennis...on a minimum....did you know what we did with him(he was also playing in a 8 man rottaiton...talk about depth) we traded him for a top 55 protected pick...nothing but savings, mid season

Daniel house? our gleague...we sent him home around the same time for 2 months for g league

now look around the league, look at the 'standard' for contenders and you wondder why everyone left? it aint about tad brown its anyone who had clout in the nba didnt want to work with tilman and now we're stuck kissing ass to the likes of demarcus cousins and oladiipo to their destinatiosn to rebuild some trust.


Then further more the lying...he says getting under the tax is a fluke...you blame morey, thats fine, but you do get his quote is a ver batim lie?

in fact how many owners hve gotten caught lying to their fanbase like that? who accidentally trades a first rounder for nothing but savings?
What owner lies about a coaches contract to the press and has to step back? that coachs agent is one of the most connected in the league

So yea..tilman and his trajectory has hurt the team.
Itst like sarver, he used to do the same trade picks for money hurt his team...and now look the exact players we wouldnt take a risk at (its all risk) he did and he redeemed himself...so I'm hoping for tilly to reddeem himself
@tinman mentioned @Clutch and this site had effectively added pressure to the rockets and les in times past. So thats all fans can do, we can boo, we can critsiize and for the bootlickers like you can bend over and unlike milaueke and GS fans, can say but but the owner its not worth it for him...these poor billionaires...

so yea you have to push it bc this guy will just do what he did and hes shown he'll lie. thats not just on the court go read his interviews he sells snake oil to anyone who will buy it. I WILL STILL Give him a nod if he chnges his ways and becomes a better job. I'm sorry my words make you too sensitive that i may hate les or tilman or whoever, but nothing i say is not a fact. its objective.and i do think he has been a terrible impact on the rockets and I was actualyl excited when he came bc as i mentioned above with les, i didnt think les was great and I see these new owners for nets, warrios, cliippers all come in and ACcelerate the modern nba money and professionalism and this guy talks high, and acts little.

and when he does better, ill give the props, but in 3 short years hes been among the names of worst owners in the fastest burn down i've visited and it was mandated for soley money savings on the margins AND he lied to us fans not helping himself? Terrible. Like you said, he aint going anywhere, but i'm from texas..I'm not sure if you're one of thsoe chinese fans who came in during les and has learned not to question authority...in texas we don't bow down or shut up and listen. this is our city and our team, tilman is welcome to do better and i hope he does.

like i said, the things you're rooting for are first and foremost benefit to tilman's savings evne if the team suffers...you'd rather not have the oner risk which is the one thing they contribute. And as mentioend 100 i you look at raptorsr spending on marc gasol, if you look at cavs overspending on love,jr smith for years after their ring...the nba ain't a little boys business its not a restaurant or mom and pop for daily margins. its a billionaires showase league with only more money pouring it. Thats why despite the 'guarantee of no finals' small markets like phx, utah, denver all spent BIG this year...and oddly enough them and bucks fans or even warriosr fans who lost a lot but owners spent big they aren't worried about much but just putting the best product on the court....why arent you?

once again, please answer not the "ariZa SuCked" answer why not keep hiscontract to trade? why not take a risk? Or better yet, why replace him with ennis who trade him for 0 when he was playing..he was a minimum contract, we literally can't get cheaper than that and we just opted for 0 player instead of at leatst that. its inexcusable and thats not just brown, harden...lebron, giannisyou name it...they'd all leave...ask the new latest FA:

Paul said, via Chotiner:

"'I educated [Davis] on why I thought the team wouldn't be . . . ' He paused. 'All athletes are competitive and confident, until reality sets in. And I educated him on things.'"
Paul laid out what superstars need to see from teams to give a long-term commitment.

"You either need your team in place, or you need flexibility, assets, money, and the ability to make decisions. And, more important, the willingness to pay the [luxury] tax ... This ain't 'Moneyball.'"


So yea, with your mentality and the new nba...i think you should go root for the pacers. Root for herb simon to take a swing on a budget and go for luck. I'm hoping the rockets catch up to th erest of the league and get back to clutch ccity and unlike 2017 where tilman talked big about spending in facilities, he actually finally does it.

 

Fuggin tinman, makin me choose between Giant Douche vs. a Wagyu Turd Slider.

Verdict is still out on ferntits.

Team is his now, and maybe he'll luck into more game breaking talent like this year.

It's really how he reacts when his GM wants pieces to take us to the next level, something that voters def remember the last time it uhhh happened.

 

thats how i feel. for some reason the tilman only fans are so sensitive if you post his own quotes and hypocrisies they either veer towards you just hate this random dude you don't know because of his money(lol but not the rest of the f'n billinoairs and millionaires involved in the nba for some reason?) or you're obsessed with him. I like that one, it has a nice 17 year old mean girl flair to it.

but yea. I just call out his moves, especialyl when he lies which makes it worse. and hes been pretty terrible/stupid. but doesnt mean that can't change. I would've called sarver one of the bottom tier owners for a while, he endedu p paying guys literally we wouldn't(ariza,paul) and made a finals team. he learned and to his credit made phoenix a respected team now. Tilman can do the same,i'll still be here for it, frankly i'm hoping for it.

Ain't no one in the entire nba fandom who got in to follor or even talk about own owner.that only happens if something really bad/stupid or someting really good/unique happens...you can figure out which one lol

@Salvy , i added a paragraph and spacing since it was too short so it looks longer at least, i don't want to mess up the rep.

 

First of all you're the one calls me a landry only right? Now you saying quit the hs twitter bs lmao.


Ariza in 2019 isnt paxson, kerr etc. Just look at his stats post that 15M and tell me how he would have made a differencr 2019 and beyond. Dude was done and washed. Fertita doesnt need your nod of approval just like he doesnt need mine. He will run his team his way just like you keep running your mouth pining about Tad Brown.

Look you can keep posting novelettes about how Fertita sucks that nobody reads. Or you can go follow another team. Love it or hate it he represents the Rockets until he sells the team.

If I hated someone to write posts the length you do guess what I wont follow that team he owns anymore unless he sells it.

You want me to root for the Pcers why? Im happy with Fertita rooting for the Pacers who are owned by another team makes no sense. You are the one who says Fertita doesnt get a nod from you, yet here you posting novelettes about Feritita multiple times a day on Clutchfans.

Look man, put up or shut up. Just leave until Fertita sells the team. Or does your nod mean nothing? Whether Fertita gets your nod or not you will still be here boosting the Clutchfans word count like Dadakota, What and Jopatmc combined x10? So nothing changes.

 

how? bc defensive stats aren't evne close upto speed
How did PJ tucker help the bucks win by scoring 0...maybe because these dudes whose job is just to spread the corut we don't rely on their scoring

you do get how spacing works? its about if the defensive respects your shot so they won't leave your man. PJ and Ariza can score 0 still provide spacing, but once again what they do is defense. THey were our best switch defenders. See with your lgoic, Pj just doesnt' make a differnece, he had a 0...but maybe every coach in the nba is stupid for continuing to play him 30 minutes? Nah maybe casuals just can't read beyond a boxscore.

lol you literally write posts long defendinghim...and he has no connection to you, you are his type of bootlicker. I can't say I would want rockets to ever hire someone like you talkingabout the bill and we need to save save save for tilmans next yacht, but landrys will give you a senior position and tilman can belittle you and say shut up and listen, you seem like you're into that type of thing. youdo you man, everyones here for different reasons. if seeing tilman smile and his eyes are what speaks to you about the rockets, folllow him as you are. I know that won't chagne

PAcers? because they are known to not go for the gold, they will just try to do their best within budget and do a landrys style give enough entertainment draw(pay for stars who bring in revenue, seats, merchandse) then skimp on teh drinks and margins and quality on the sides bc casuals don't understand what it takes, and thats where you get a mid luxrury restaurant like landrys. Its a winning recipe and the dude is wildly successful, but that ain't gonna get houston back to Clutch city. So thats why with what you're rooting for and jumping loops to justify, the proof is in the pudding, you're a landry's rockets fans. Not a Houston Rockets fans. The dude literally is lying ver batum, talked about the westbrook trade, lowered our destination stature bc most players love houston and you are clapping along like a dumb seal....hey man, humanity has done a lot, we've never cured stupid. Some folks just bend over if they see someone with authority, you're not the only one, you wont be the last.

lol by your logic this changes nothing? so what are you here for? Does any thing you say change anything ,does anything anyone does? this is am essage board for discussion you just can't handle anyone talking about your daddy like that apparently...shoot like i said, i hope he does better. I'm not going to delude myself to pretend he hasn't sucked bc the evidence is there, and when he does better and does the only thing an owner can contribute(no, not teach nba plyers how to step on throats) pay the f'n tax and shut up and listen to the basketball ops, then i'll applaud him. simple as that. you'll be suckin him off no matter what he does. thats the difference. Enjoy it down there. Hakeem would be shakin his head at ya, but we're a big tent. So bring it on, tilman only fans ryan anderson only fans whatever...you do you. Peace out, can't argue with stupid.

 

Agree. He also sold the team at the perfect timing, which was when the Rox made the WCF for the first time since Hakeem era.

These other posters dont get it. Still think Ariza is the key to a championship formula.

 

no, I think the championship formula takes vets, role players, and stars. I guess you can go on think you know better than chris paul quotes. he wasn't playing with ariza, a different team, yet he still ameks a point that in that locker room when you are dealing with personalities having a championship vet is helpful

likewise in the same light, you must not think pj tucker is a part of a championship formula? he shot worst than ariza He had 0 poitns and close to played most of the game...and they won, go figure 16 games in the playoff grind with him as a starter...its almot like theres more than the box score?

And I got no problem with yalls critique on les...like I said, their objective. Its fair...it doesnt change the guy whose currently runing our team from a 1 seed to the last.
I was excited to have a local as an owner and he was supposedly richer than les so it all made sense, the guy just not just fell short of expectations he OVERSOLD underdelivered and then he blamed and deflected, mistakes happen, but that wasn't helping his cause. Les ran away with the bag, we got stuck with a reality tv show guy who overselsl and is the most overleveraged owner in the nba, and sadly it shows. What good is it if he runs it for his profit margins anyway and hurts the city...we lose out on talent, possiblities, our city suffered and people out here defending tilman.

its like back with les when we called him cheap some bootlickers were there saying hey cmon, he has to be reasonable. and that was at a time when the nba moeny and way o winning wasn't raised with the balmer and nets billionaires...now if we play to win, weve gotta spend. not on the obvious stars that generate the revenue back that every single team would spend on, role players, staff. facilities...or prepetual mediocrity and empty promises ensue, some people will see his bullshit, but some will just keep on licking plates for him for free... as mentioned, I've been a ticket holder for years, ive never stopped going with tilman, i just was disappointed that he raised our prices while he cheapened on the team and more so just lied about the whole thing as well, classless. MY nephews still rock rockets gear for their christmas gifts, like i said been here before him, before les, but I got no problem calling any of em out...including moreys and hardens flaws, but for some reason theres just particular posters who get butt hurt over tilman more than anyone. don't understand it, but you do you man.


yea...daryl morey made the final decision just like the manager at your favorite restaurant supersedes the owner right?: guess who:

"
So I’m talking at 2, 3, 4 in the morning. And we just decided to do it. They ran different statistics by me.

My basketball ops [operations] got maybe a little weak at the end, and I just said, ‘We’re doing this. We are going to make the change. We’re going to go after it and roll the dice. We’re going to find that 5 percent.’​

 

you make it too easy man

Mario elie, western confernce finals
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199405270UTA.html
0-6, cassel was 2-9

to goto the finals, sam cassel, 1-6
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199405310HOU.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199506010HOU.html

Lol, what a casual. These guys are legends, even go look at kobe and mj had terrible shooting games in the finals even, its apart of the game. BUt you guys are more espn/tmz the jump type of headline basketball fans, no idea of anything beyond the surface. but hey, its the entertainment business right? Players have bad games, once again you guys can't answer your box score logic...pj tucker 0 points...40 minutes, played all series and coach kept him in, hes got a ring...you guys have what, more of tilmans ass to eat?


are you sure you guys aren't some ccp trolls who les picked up and sold to tilman to kiss his ass online? I'm really wondering
anyway, can't argue with such an elementary logic, you guys can have him...no point in this, final word. you guys keep rooting for Landry's. Ill keep on voting for the actual rockets basketball club, you guys should try checking out the team sometime

 

Bro, I read this in like a minute.... I set aside at least 30 min for your posts.... 2 out of 5 stars....

 

I know what you mean, I can't show my face around here with these 2/3 paragraph child play kindergarten bs.
I'm gong to go back and work on my 2017-2021 Rockets history thesis modeled after Dante's Divine Comedy...in length. I got a signed copy for you for sure.

 

Nope...
Hopefully Elon Musk falls in love with basketball and buys the Rockets!