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Jalen's future. Optimist or pessimist?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jim1961, Jul 4, 2024.

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Are you optimistic or pessimistic about Jalen's future?

Poll closed Oct 4, 2024.
  1. Very optimistic

    34 vote(s)
    11.0%
  2. Somewhat optimistc

    84 vote(s)
    27.2%
  3. On the fence

    66 vote(s)
    21.4%
  4. Somewhat pessimistic

    86 vote(s)
    27.8%
  5. Very pessimistic

    39 vote(s)
    12.6%
  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    What is AAU ball?
     
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  2. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    There is really nothing to argue about Jalen anymore. Everything positive and negative have been said endless times. What remains to do is see how he plays when the season starts.

    I've been saying this many times. I am not a Jalen hater. I was against trading him up until this offseason. Now I am on the fence, not because I changed my view about his potential, which I still believe in, but because his time is running out on this team. The FO and the coach has to make a decision one way or another whether he is a keeper. Now I am fine with either decision.

    I think the problem with the few Jalen defenders like you is that you don't just believe in his potential. You believe he is already a star level player. It has been pointed out many times that he played like a star only in some games. In the vast majority of games, he was not a star and was arguably a below average player. I still believe in his potential because he did play more star level games than the average role player. But he also played more bad games than the average star player.

    If you look at the whole body of his work, it does not look like a star player's work. If you believe that he is already a star player and is the best on the team, then you know why most people here don't agree with you. And you should also know why the vast majority of the votes in this poll go to the middle three choices. But I know you already have heard this argument many, many times. And you don't have to reply to me because your answer will likely been said by you many, many times.
     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I want you to quote me saying he already is a star level player.

    When you type that it kinda signals to me you are debating either an imagery person or you are mistakening me for another poster.

    Your meta of "we heard it all before" goes out the window when you make the most basic inaccuracies on what I even say.
     
  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    The cycle has been going on for 3 years now with these crazy ass cultists

    "Jalen is already a star"

    someone then proves definitively that he's terrible

    "He's only 12 years old, give him time, he's already ahead of where God was at 12"

    someone then asks, okay so you agree that he's terrible right now though?

    "No, he's already the best player ever"

    someone reposts the evidence that he's not

    "You have to give him at least 25 seasons to judge him"

    someone then asks isn't that ridiculous?

    "No, it's not ridiculous he's already a star"
     
    #304 Bobbythegreat, Jul 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2024
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  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Just to be clear...

    You think I'm saying he is a star player because guys like Cam or Amen can't replace what Green does in a half court offensive set.

    So does that mean you think Amen and Cam are stars because I think they can't replace what Green does and that makes you believe that I think Green is already a star? Green can't replace Amen's defensive impact btw.

    If you don't notice I get confrontational about Jalen when it comes to specific claims.

    If someone says "Jalen needs to improve his shooting consistency to become a star" do you see me react in some confrontational way? No because I agree with that statement so why would I be confrontational.

    I respond when people make claims like saying Cam should already replace Jalen as the starter or that one summer league game means feed Shepard should take all of Jalen's minutes.

    Do you even see the comments I reply to you? They are usually really absurd claims regarding Jalen.
     
    #305 fchowd0311, Jul 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2024
  6. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    Yes I do think Ime defers to vets longer than he should. Most nba coaches do the same thing, so maybe there is an aspect of showing possible future vets that they are treated well in Houston. I hated the Holiday signing for this very reason and want Brooks gone asap. Amen should be getting 35 mins a game.
     
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  7. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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  8. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Do the Rockets win or lose more if Amen gets 35 mpg?

    That is the question that Ime is answering when Amen does or does not.
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I mean it would improve our defense but it's undetermined if it would help our offense if he plays that much. He has explosion to the rim and has good IQ with decision making but is one of the worst floor spacers in the NBA. So undetermined.
     
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  10. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I think the Rockets are better when Jalen is not option #1. He can score, but we do better when he doesn’t.
     
    bustamove likes this.
  11. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    That seems overly critical from someone who is the biggest apologist of a player that can't play on either end of the court well.
     
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  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Does that bear out statistically?

    https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/4865/onoff#tab-team_efficiency

    I trust cleaning the glass over other places like bball ref for on/off impact(and so do NBA analysts) because they specialize in it and remove as much noise as possible like garbage time minutes unlike bball ref.

    So Jalen Green with the highest usage on the team has one of the highest impacts only behind FVV on this team in offensive efficiency.

    So
     
    #312 fchowd0311, Jul 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2024
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Yes. Here's his on/off numbers from last season. The team's offensive and defensive ratings were overall 4.7 points worse with Jalen on the court than with him off the court. Of course, this shouldn't be surprising given he's one of the worst players on the team.

    upload_2024-7-13_11-45-5.png
     
  14. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    I get what you’re saying, but it is not total meritocracy with Ime. He does defer to vets at times. Holiday getting minutes over Amen and Cam for a very long time was one of the reasons we weren’t set up to make the play-in. Amen had a huge impact on winning basketball last year when he finally got his shot. Amen more than any other player turned us into an uptempo team. His defense alone is worth 35 mins a game, then add in the offensive rebounding and his ability to get to the rim and make the right pass. At that point, there is no excuse to not give him the minutes.
     
  15. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

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    Jalen Green year 1
    0-9 pts - 13
    10-19 - 28
    20-29 - 18
    30-39 -7
    40-49 - 1
    17.3PPG 3.4RPG 2.6APG 0.7SPG 0.3BPG 42.6 FG% 34.3 3p%

    Devin Booker year 1

    0-9 pts -26
    10-19 - 34
    20-29 - 10
    30-39 - 6
    13.8PPG 2.5RPG 2.6APG 0.6SPG 0.6BPG 42.3 FG% 34.3 3p%

    Jalen Green year 2
    0-9 pts - 2
    10-19 - 29
    20-29 - 29
    30-39 - 12
    40-49 - 4
    22.1PPG 3.7 RPG 3.7APG 0.8SPG 0.2BPG 41.6FG% 33.8 3p%

    Devin Booker year 2

    0-9 pts - 6
    10-19 -28
    20-29 - 33
    30-39 - 13
    40-49 -
    50+ - 1
    22.1 PPG 3.2 RPG 3.4APG 0.9SPG 0.3BPG 42.3FG% 36.3 3p%


    Jalen Green year 3
    0-9 pts -11
    10-19 - 32
    20-29 - 26
    30-39 - 11
    40-49 - 2
    19.6PPG 5.2RPG 3.5APG 0.8SPG 0.3BPG 42.3 FG% 33.2 3p%

    Devin Booker year 3

    0-9 pts - 2
    10-19 - 18
    20-29 - 12
    30-39 - 18
    40-49 - 3
    24.9PPG 4.5RPG 4.7APG 0.9SPG 0.3BPG 43.2 FG% 38.3 3p%

    Actually, when you directly compare his body of work with a current NBA star at his position, the numbers would say they're so close that he absolutely resembles a star player's work. The main differences are that Jalen didn't carry on as the #1 option in his 3rd year and put up his numbers as the 3rd option, and Booker is a better 3pt shooter whilst Jalen is a better finisher at the rim. Why do y'all make **** up so much, you know the information's all there online, right?
     
  16. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

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    While this tracks and i agree with you, it's worth pointing out that Jalen was indeed the #1 option. He may have been the 3rd option in ppg but was #1 in fga/gm.

    For most of the early part of the year he was the #2 or #3 option, but his late explosion paints him as the #1 option and he was.

    Its plain and simple that its always gonna come down to efficiency for Jalen.
     
  17. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

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    I would counter that he may have had the most number of shots, but if you watched the majority of last season and saw our offense revolve around Jalen and not the FVV/Sengun 2-man game then I genuinely don't know what to tell you. I feel like you're almost trying to gaslight in fact it's that well documented that the focus was moved well and truly from Jalen to Sengun, like wtf?
     
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  18. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

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    Idk what your trying to imply.

    Im simply stating that Jalen took more shots than anyone else which correlates to him being the #1 option.

    I agree that the majority of the first half of the season was the fvv/sengun show. Which is why i said he was more the #2 or #3 guy until his late explosion, where he was most definitely the #1 guy.

    Again, i agree with your premise and his outlook. But by seasons end, he was our primary option.
     
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  19. BaselineFade

    BaselineFade Member
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    Couldn't agree more.

    Amen's impact should have been obvious to anyone watching watching last year. I know that Houston fans love the analytics. He passed that test too without having a 3 point shot. When he started for Fred check the numbers. When he started for Alpi check the numbers. He's getting stronger. Looking at Amen's frame, he can carry 230 easily and not lose any mobility. Check his OTE combine numbers. He had some of the best numbers ever. I mean like in the history of recording combine stats. His lateral quickness is all time great.

    Any improvement in shooting or ball handling and this kid turns into a monster. He's already the the best non-center defender in basketball after 1 year. High IQ great vision, and apparently an extremely hard worker.

    That's my long way of saying that if the offense is constructed correctly, giving Amen 35 minutes a game would have a tremendous impact on the team winning which is all that matters to me.
     
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  20. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Reed Sheppard makes posting much more easier than Jalen Green ever did.

     
    Easy likes this.

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