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Jaden Ivey

Discussion in 'NBA Draft' started by xaos, Nov 21, 2021.

  1. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Yeah, when people say Mobley better athlete, than i look at the two of them dribbling the ball up the court.... Chet looks more like a SF than Mobley does. Maybe that's purely a function of the ball handling, but to me that speaks athleticism.

    In other words, i see just as much fluidity and athleticism in Chet... it just looks so dang gangly-like when he does it. In some ways I see more fluidity out of Chet, but could almost view that as a drawback given his physique... perhaps part of the reason it works with Mobley is because he's not overdoing it on his frame. Whereas i've seen with Chet at times true "guard-like" mobility.

    Check out below from this year. To me this was a level of fluidity i did NOT see out of Mobley, which was one of the primary reasons i went JG slightly over him. Its also one of the reasons i really like Chet. He has 3-5 skills...

     
  2. cmoak1982

    cmoak1982 Member
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    Chet is as fluid and athletic as you can get. Mobley is a bit more explosive.
    Chet’s handles are great, which is why his offensive upside along with elite shooting is so high.
    We can’t pass up on that type of talent again imo.
     
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  3. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Im with you, especially since this doesnt even factor in his defense... and yes Joel Embiid will abuse him, and Ayton will outmuscle him, etc. but he'll be able to guard a lot of ground and be that defensive anchor in the middle that impacts shots, especially from driving guards.

    Alpi (5) + Chet (4) defensively is a beast defensive frontcourt
     
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  4. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Mobley is a 7 foot wing that can ultimately transition to the center. But like Tim Duncan, KD and Giannis (albeit for different reasons) center may not be his best position.

    What makes Mobley a generational talent is what he can do on the perimeter as legit 7 footer, on defense. His combination of length, discipline, IQ and lateral agility is special.

    Chet can play the 4 but will be at his best as a stretch 5 imo. While Chet is better than many realize on the perimeter he can be elite as rim protector.

    Offensively, Chet is further developed and more efficient than Mobley and that is the area where he can be a Unicorn.

     
  5. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Most people using fluidity are referencing Mobley's lateral agility which is preternatural for a 7 footer.

    And there is no denying that Mobley is simply the more explosive of the 2.

    While Chet is more advanced offensively for sure.
     
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  6. vator

    vator Contributing Member

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    As the season has progressed, are we still high on Ivey as a potential point guard of the future? I’ve watched about 10 games and maybe it’s the wrong 10, but he’s not a natural playmaker at the point. More like a combo guard. He’d be a project at that position. His point guard skills are very raw. Love his talent, athleticism, and he already has a strong frame, but he is probably going to require some patience as well through the growing pains that this board doesn’t seem to have.
     
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  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I don't see him as a pg but a very explosive combo guard that I would play mainly at the 2, he reminds me of Mitchell and Morant, i'm starting to think he is the most dynamic out of the top 4.

    He might be my favorite prospect of all of them.
     
  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Bump!
     
  9. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Like him better than Jalen Green.

    But Rockets not trading JG.
     
  10. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    They don't have to trade Green, what does that have to do with Ivey?

    Are we going to let the pick of Green control everything we do for the foreseeable future?

    If building around Green at all cost is the plan, we are worse off than I already think we are.
     
  11. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    maybe i know next to nothing about bball and it would not be successful but it would seem to be fun to have jalen and jaden both as a backcourt
     
  12. vator

    vator Contributing Member

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    Serious question. Anybody feel free to weigh in on this. What exactly are you so confident that he will do better than Jalen Green at the NBA level 2 years from now or even next year?

    Jaden Ivey is having a good year, but keep in mind he is probably a 2nd round pick at best had he come out last year after his freshman season. He's essentially playing his 2nd year removed from high school on a collegiate level against far inferior competition and Green is only like 4 days older than Ivey. They both just turned 20 in February a few days apart.

    Also, how is he an upgrade over Kevin Porter Jr. assuming KPJ doesn't implode?

    Serious questions. I don't dislike Ivey. I'm just watching a bunch of videos like the one below and trying to objectively evaluate his strengths and weaknesses in case we don't get a top 2 pick. He has a great body and is explosive, but very raw in some ways and certainly has some warts to his game right now that he will need to work on.

     
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  13. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Similar explosiveness and quickness but Ivey is longer and is already the better defender.

    Defense matters to me.

    That said, prefer Chet, Jabari or Griffin over Ivey with Rockets FRP.

     
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  14. vator

    vator Contributing Member

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    Just threw up his 3rd clunker in the last 6 games. My eyebrow is raised. 10 points on 2-11, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, and 3 turnovers. Those stats do the performance no justice. It was worse than that. Out of control, no plan, bad decisions, bad passing, bad shooting. Just really bad.
     
    #74 vator, Mar 5, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2022
  15. i3artow i3aller

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  16. RedIsen

    RedIsen Member

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    For all the griping we do about KPJ not being able to consistently run an offense, Ivey seems like he'd be a lateral move in terms of playmaking and vision. And the only evidence Tjarks gives for him developing a real floor general game is that his parents are a basketball coach and a former NFL player? I know the Rockets aren't in a position to think too hard about fit, but that description scares me.
     
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  17. vator

    vator Contributing Member

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    Ivey does scare me a little. He definitely has some things he still needs to improve on. I'm worried about his shot, he seems right-hand dominant, and he isn't a great passer. Definitely a combo guard and not a point guard.

    In relation to KPJ, think they are very different at how they play the game. Ivey isn't as good of a passer as KPJ, nor is he as good of a shooter as KPJ right now, but he wants to get downhill and get to the basket and finish strong. He is much more decisive with the basketball and more explosive going to the basket. There is a lot less dribble dribble dribble because he has a more devastating first step and he seems to utilize his athleticism better to finish than KPJ who throws up a bunch of awkward and off-balance stuff.

    So one cool thing is, he is closer in body size and type to KPJ with his wingspan, but closer to Green in regards to athleticism and ability to get to the rim. Green is faster, more twitchy, and not as stiff in the hips, but Ivey has longer arms, probably bigger hands, and already has an NBA body.

    The problem is, KPJ is one of your higher upside players, but his trade value wouldn't reflect that so it makes it hard to justify moving off of him right now when you have a clear need for taller players. Even if you think a Green and Ivey backcourt is a big upgrade long term. If KPJ had any trade value, it would be really exciting having Green and Ivey constantly putting pressure on opposing team defenses for 48 minutes.

    Now just for fun. Ignoring conventional wisdom that we need a big, our draft pick is sub optimal, and Ivey is the best player still on the board.

    I don't think KPJ would accept a role as a 6th man on this team so can he be a starter at SF? This is one reason I wanted to see more of the Nix/Josh, Green, KPJ lineup that looked good against a good Miami team in the first half. I'm not opposed to the idea of running out a lineup with 3 athletic guys that can all play off ball and take turns initiating the offense and creating for each other. To me the real question is if they could hold up defensively with the right guys at power forward and center.
     
    #77 vator, Mar 11, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
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  18. RedIsen

    RedIsen Member

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    I see what you mean saying he's more decisive than KPJ, which could theoretically mean the ball flows around better on offense, or actions just happen faster/more efficiently. It does seem unlikely, but KPJ embracing a Jamal Crawford/Ginobili super sub role makes a lot of sense. Give him the space and agency to cause chaos, breakdown defenses and score.

    Interestingly, synergy rates Ivey as a below average team defender, but an excellent iso defender (small-ish sample). I think the Ivey-Green-KPJ/Christopher lineup could work defensively depending on the other pieces. If its still Tate/KJ at the 4 with Sengun/Wood at the 5 it's gonna be ugly. If the Nets pick stays around 15 and someone like Eason, Murray, or Sochan is there, that might help but results in a very young and inexperienced lineup.

    Grabbing a defensive veteran 4/5 in FA could work, but I don't know if such a player is out there.
     
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  19. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Garuba's injuries have hurt. If he's as good defensively as expected, he would really help if he can be developed. Though, between him and Sengun, one of them is going to need to be able to shoot if both on floor.
     
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  20. Francis3422

    Francis3422 Member

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    Guard is the least of our worries. KPJ/Green/Jaygup should be playing the vast majority of the guard mins available.

    We may need a championship point guard in 4 years but we can ride out KPJ and see what happens. I personally think Green is the primary ball handler of the future with Jaygup in the PBev roll on defense and helping with ball handling. Obviously Jaygup is way stronger potential wise.

    Ivey has fallen to 5th option in my mind.
     

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