Man, it would be like a 3 on 3 wrestling match for the ball! My money is on Othella! OK, seriously I don't mind Cuttino shooting the ball, but he needs to grow as a player and realize that when he isn't hitting(ie. 9-21), that he must get his teammates involved in the game. The longer he dominates the ball, the more his teammates are taken out of the game and the more our shooting suffers. As long as he is taking good shots and not these backward a$$ falling out of bounds shots where the ball goes flying over the backboard, I can accept those because more often than not, his good, open shots will fall. ------------------ "Clinton lied. A man might forget where he parks or where he lives, but he never forgets oral sex, no matter how bad it is." -- Barbara Bush
HeyPartner, Yes, there is more flex in the offense, and they are learning to play better. However, Cuttino is far from a finished product, and he does shoot a lot. I personally would rather him shoot less, and take SMARTER shots. No one gets upset with him when he is taking it strong to the hole, but a fadeaway 20 foot jumper is REALLY a bad shot. Also, for you to infer that someone does not know basketball, because they can't cite a particular play is ludicrous. Basketball is not Rocket science. It is a simple game that when played correctly is a beautiful thing to watch. All the Rockets need to make this offense work to its fullest, is a big man that can role to the hoop, or cut baseline. This would complete the pnr that you like so much, or the drive and dish, that I love. As for Mobley running the PNR better, I guess, but you have to pass it sometime to get the R part of that...right now it is just a screen for a Mobley drive. DaDakota ------------------ If Mankind evolved from monkeys and apes, then why are there still monkeys and apes?
Oh yeah... you don't remember CC97? That was the original site... where it all began. It was originally called Clutch City '97 (location: <a href="http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/b/bchriste/rockets.html">http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/b/bchriste/rockets.html</a>)... ran there for a time, then the old name, then we escaped the fraud who stole the name and finally landed at clutchcity.net. Rest is history... <a href="http://www.clutchcity.net/cc98/index.html">Clutch City '98</A> (Pippen graphic -- scary) and <a href="http://www.clutchcity.net/cc99/index.html">Clutch City '99</a> I still have in the archives.... ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
heypartner, I realize there are alot of people ,who you think, think Francis can do no wrong(you thought I was one), but I have a couple of things to argue with you. One, you cant b**** about the fastbreak anymore, because Francis has been running it and running it well. Second, you always make the point that Cuttino runs 24 high better than Francis, but I havent been seeing it that way the last 2 games. Cuttino gets impatient out there on the court, and of late has been forcing his shot on this play. I'm fine with Cuttino taking GOOD shots, but fadeways on 24 high and posts up where he fades to his OFFHAND piss me off. Second, when Cuttino runs that play theres usually no second chance points or assists, because you live or die with him hitting that shot. When Francis runs it, I just feel like he realizes when something isnt there and will kick it out. Cuttino is such a great player, that when he sees double teams coming, he could be so effective with his passing. I want him to be the best player he can be, I just want him to learn when to be passive and when to take over. Point in case, yesterdays game Francis had Camby on a mismatch and was screaming at cuttino to pass the ball, but Cat went to the hole. I think he made the basket, but he needs to make the pass and yield to the hot hand. He and iverson have the best first steps in the league, and when his decision making gets better he will be a force. ------------------
This topic looks so fun, I just have to join in... First of all, I think Mobley is much improved since his rookie year. I think I noticed more improvement last year than I did this year, but I'm willing to be patient. Yeah, I still get frustrated when he jacks up a shot and misses at a crucial part of the game, but I'm willing to chalk all of it up to learning. I really liked what HP said about tunnel-vision and Mobley. When he mentioned Hakeem's tunnel-vision, it got me thinking about Hakeem's first 3-5 years in the league. I think most everyone will agree that he changed a great deal in that time period. He changed from a "ball-hog" to a guy who could dominate any player at his position, draw the double/triple teams, and then get the rest of the team involved. This came as a product of both Hakeem learning to pass better and of the rest of out players setting up in places that Hakeem could find them. As far as I can tell, Mobley has that same ability. He already can dominate most any player that guards him, and this is just his 3rd year. I think he's learning to look for his teammates when he does draw the double, and I think his teammates are learning where to be in order for Mobley to more easily find them. I think as both Mobley and the rest of the team develop, the Mobley ISO will become a more effective TEAM play (not just an ISO for Mobley). As far as the Mobley ISO vs. the Francis ISO, I think it is obvious that Cat's ISO is more effective. Cat seems to get by his defender and gets to the hole more easily than Francis. Personally, I don't think we should try to ISO Francis in the same way he ISO Mobley. I think somebody on the board suggested a while back that we start the Francis ISO from the baseline. I think that that is a great idea and I'd really like to see the Rockets try it some more. I'm not a big fan of the ISO, but the thought of Francis taking baseline across the middle (ala Iverson) makes me really excited. Anyways, that's my two cents... ------------------
Clutch, I remember CC97. I think I was here in 1996 sometime also. Or was that a Dream? Someone hand me the soap. My mouf be dirty like a Charles Barkley tirade on a ref after a bad call. AHHHH the memories. We are getting old, fellas. CC97 brings back the time when I said that Hakeem was no...well, we know what I said. I said Hakeem was the best of all time! (Don't you dare put that link on this thread, Clutch. I will send Kristal pay you a visit and gnaw you to death!) ------------------ Nadie En La Vida Es Eterno [This message has been edited by Almu (edited February 06, 2001).]
HeyP, Your last post about the Mobley Iso vs. the Francis ISO is on point. I agree on every point. I really do hate when Steve doesn't even use the pick and just tries use his "handles" to get by 2 people. This is one of the reasons he turns the ball over like he does. I also noticed a lot of times that when the picks are being set and the picker rolls off to wing wide open, Steve usually doesnt pass it. Instead he tries to drive into the mouth of defenders waiting for him in the paint. Also, Steve please learn the midrange jumper. And lastly, for some reason he has a hard problem of getting the ball to Hakeem when he is posted up as does Cuttino sometimes. This seemed so easy when Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, and Bryce Drew were doing it. Whats up with that? I am not bashing Steve, I repeat I am not bashing Steve because he and Mobley are my favorite players and the future of this franchise. GO ROX ------------------ Rockets Season Ticket Holder
Without offending DaDakota with basketball language , there is something I want to point out to the board here after reading tacomah, croutons, and cato13. We are dissolving the difference between the ISO (2 Shakes) and the PNR (24 High). At this point, I don't know who is saying what, although you each surely have moments visualized well in your mind. 2 Shakes *never* has a pick in it. Never. 24 High is the 2 man game that always uses a pick out high. <font size="1">Croutons, I suggested running a 24 Low on the baseline for Francis, like Philly does for Iverson. I don't recall anyone suggesting an ISO on the baseline.</font> Francis was running 24 High last year as his primary play...remember all those Bullard pick-n-rolls in the 1st Q when Bullard was starting. Francis got Player of January on that play, and the NBA started shutting it down. Mobley ran 2 Shakes last year as his primary play. In fact, I cannot remember ever seeing Mobley get a pick last year. Francis and Mobley each run both of these plays. 2 Shakes overall has gone down in use. Mobley is getting more and more 24 Highs called for him. He always waits for the pick. So my question...who wants to see a Clutchplay of 24 High? There are a lot of options to it. Would you rather see the structured options (the Xs and Os), or would you rather see the difference between how Francis and Mobley run it.
Your last post about the Mobley Iso vs. the Francis ISO is on point. I agree on every point. On the 24 high, I really do hate when Steve doesn't even use the pick and just tries use his "handles" to get by 2 people. This is one of the reasons he turns the ball over like he does. I also noticed a lot of times that when the picks are being set and the picker rolls off to wing wide open, Steve usually doesnt pass it. Instead he tries to drive into the mouth of defenders waiting for him in the paint. Also, Steve please learn the midrange jumper. And lastly, for some reason he has a hard problem of getting the ball to Hakeem when he is posted up as does Cuttino sometimes. This seemed so easy when Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, and Bryce Drew were doing it. Whats up with that? I am not bashing Steve, I repeat I am not bashing Steve because he and Mobley are my favorite players and the future of this franchise. GO ROX ------------------ Rockets Season Ticket Holder [This message has been edited by cato13 (edited February 06, 2001).]
HP, My mistake...it was the 24 Low that you suggested. Still a good idea, though. Actually, even better now that I think more about it. It would get Francis into the middle which is where he can do a lot of damage. I'd like to see the Clutchplay of 24 High with the differences b/w Francis and Mobley running it. Also, I think a 24 Low clutchplay would be cool to see. They're about to cut the power off in my building so I'm out. ------------------
Welcome to a great thread Francis34, Who are you and what is your take? Your last comment is too cryptic.
I don't really understand how people can say Mobley hasn't improved. His rookie year he was a PG who, by design was the 4th or 5th option. The only memorable shot I remember him taking was the last second shot vs the Lakers in the last game of the playoffs. Since then he has become the Rockets #1 option. Are all of his shots great shots, no but keep in mind most young scorers go thru the same thing. Until MJ won a ring everyone said he was a ball hog and he turned out fine, Iverson may be going thru the same thing this year. These guys didn't learn how to win in their 3rd year and for us to assume Mobley should is ludicrous. Mobley knew his role his first year. Know his role is to score and create. Who else can do it. Francis gets his stats about every night but up until this point he has not demanded the ball in the clutch, nor does he seem interested in running the offense to a greater extent thatn he is now. He may grow more into a leader who wants the ball more but now he doesn't. Nobody else on thios team can score every night. Mo does occassionaly, Walt does once every month or so, Cato had a good game once in College. My answer to Mobley is simple. Gwet a proven leader who leads. Mobley let Charles, Dream and Quitten do their things his rookie year and he would do the same if there was anyone else. But there's not.
He's gone now, and his post has been deleted, but did it involve an "mf" reference followed by a threat of bodily harm by "taxi"? ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS Asking the question: What is more dangerous, an AK-47 or a scooter?
Yeah, it sums up both the pro and con side of Mobley, and this thread. We don't want one-on-one playing on the court. I think pretty much everyone here could take less ISO from Francis and Mobley. Yes, lessen the ISOs. Lessen the 3s while we are at it. But we do want those ISO skills used as a weapon somehow. Rudy is tweaking him, imo, and tweaking the offense to get him into passing situations. The team and the system has to change with Francis and Mobley. We can't change just them. It takes time.
Yea, and he is putting up the same amount of shots as other 2 guards? Well, how many of those shooting guards have 3 other VIABLE options on offense and still shoot 15 times? How many of those guards shoot when the entire team, the bench, and the fans are all on his back? I mean, geez. Youth can explain some of it. But like I said, its not even 10 percent of the story. This guy jacks up a shot when he has no chance of making it and then screams foul. Cuttino has all the tools. He might mature. But I am sorry. He needs to pass the ball. Tunnel vision can include passing, you know. BobFinn, thanks a million! VIVA CC98!!! How about a retro, Clutch! ------------------ Nadie En La Vida Es Eterno [This message has been edited by Almu (edited February 06, 2001).]
to answer you question, heyp... they hate mobley cause they love steve. and they polarize the two so much that one can't possibly be as good as the other. almu, do you not think that if cuttino got 25+ shots per game on the regular that he would not score as much as iverson? i'ma tell you now, he'd probably score as much, if not more for his strength. i don't think you realize how much talent this kid has. does he make poor decisions? sure. but telling him to chill the f*ck out is not the answer. the answer is putting his teammates (as heyp said) in the right positions. why do you think he likes cato so much? it's because cato cut baseline - ALMOST EVERY TIME - at the right moment. cat could depend on that. and when he can depend on where his other teammates are, he'll give them the ball. it's up to them to adjust to him moreso than it is for him to adjust to them. why? because he is the CATalyst. [This message has been edited by verse (edited February 06, 2001).]
Almu, Mobley is running a better PNR than Francis. Mobley is not placed in the passing situations that Francis is, until now. And he is improving with that. He is getting the team involved now that he is put into a better position to do that. I'm not apologizing for passed ISO after ISO. We needed him to develop his tunnel vision for the rim at the NBA level. He's done that, now. I'm sorry, but this kid passes out of the double team more than Francis does, and does not blow of his picker ever! Francis drives away from the 24 High picker. Mobley never does. Sure, Francis is given the green light to make that decision, but so does Mobley. And which one abuses that green light more...Francis. Your comments are quickly getting outdated with the emergence of 24 High, imo. 24 High is the best way to measure Francis vs Mobley as complete playmakers. And Mobley is kicking Francis's but on this play, so far.
