If Lauri is Julius Randle with better X and worse Y, about half the league is Julius Randle with better X and worse Y. Just a very weird comp in my opinion as I don't think Randle at all when I think Lauri.
I think we are overrating our own players. I do wish Jabari can develop his offensive creations, rather than just a defensive player that only catch and shoot. We tried a few bench lineups with Jabari as the centrepiece, he was not really able to generate much on offense, his dribbling is still easily stripped and he's not been getting deep enough into the lane to shoot his short mid range. It's hard to compare a offense focused player to a defense focused player, but high scoring on high efficiency is still very hard to find in this league at their sizes. I think I am satisfied with Jabari's overall progress this year, but he's still a bit awkward on offense when he has to dribble or drive.
The problem with the whole "not forcing it" is that it also implies a limitation in his offensive game. There are players that shoot 39% on 4 3s a game, and other players who shoot 37% on 8 3s a game. There's a reason why the former isn't shooting more 3s despite shooting a better percentage. It's because he's unable to create more looks. The fact that Sengun can "force" 20 shots a game is due to his offensive arsenal being more well rounded and therefore able to take 20 shots. Jabari not taking shots is due to his inability to get clean shots off of NBA defenders at that volume. You feel a lot of Rockets players force bad shots when in reality they are taking shots that they're suppose to. They're just not good enough. I mean who forces up the most bad shots of all Rockets players over the past decade? Every game the answer was Harden. But it didn't matter because Harden was a superstar whose "forced bad shots" are often better than FVV's open looks. That's an offensive talent issue, of which Jabari is part of.
How are we overrating our own players? If anything, this kind of analysis underrates them. Like, you do realize that Jabari is 20, right? Friggin' 20. The dude can't even drink yet. I swear people analyze him like he's 27.
Sengun has a case to force up shots. He is proving to be able to take on the load. FVV well he's a vet, he can do whatever he wants. Folks will have to live with that What's JG's case who's efficiency has known to be so bad even going on year 3 to this point
It's stunning to me how anyone could argue that we are "overrating" Bari. If anything, he's really underrated. At 20 yrs old, he's putting up a fantastic defensive rating, shooting .39 from 3, and has a .6 TS%. That combo at such a young age is extremely rare. I mean, everyone is raving about Chet, but look at the numbers -- Bari and Chet have almost identical defensive ratings, identical 3 pt percentages, and Bari is actually averaging more than a rebound better per game (8.7 v. 7.4). The major difference in the raw scoring stat is that Chet averages about 2 more shots per game.
I'm not sure what JG has to do with what I'm saying. Jabari has essentially the same usage (17.9% vs. 17.8%) when Green is off the court as opposed to on. Meaning even when JG isn't in the game, Jabari still not taking more shots, which again speaks to my opinion of his offensive limitations. Since this is a Jabari thread I won't derail it with my opinion of JG here.
maybe not overating, but definitely downplaying other player's accomplishments. Lauri Markkanen is on another planet in terms of offensive production, I don't think Bari will get there and that's okay. I don't buy very much into the age thing tbh, I think most player's playing style is quite set from the get-go. Jabari fits in a mold of a fantastic 3 and D player, but he will always look a bit awkward trying to create his offense.
it has plenty to do with it because the post @harold bingo made and you replied to includes JG name, FVV, and starters. But you conveniently only named Sengun in your reply JS has the worst usage amongst starters. that's what matters. Btw usage doesn't specifically mean shots so your reference to off the court opposed to on doesn't apply What it really means is JS is known to takes good shots and doesn't force anything. That's entire the point.
Chet is just a clear better player based on the eye test. Much more confident in his abilities, a better ball handler, passer and just feel for the game imo. These are things that ‘Bari has improved upon in his own respect, but Chet was injured for a year and still clearly a better player.
I think you're underrating Lauri a bit. His numbers aren't that far off a guy like Tatum. He's much more efficient than Randle. For me he's clearly a max player, though more in the nature of second best player on a championship team than a #1 option, you're correct about that.
With all due respect, this is just drivel. And it’s so weird you use Markkanen when he didn’t do anything of note until he was 25. He literally disproves your overarching point.
Age is absolutely a huge factor. especially with more and more kids coming in at the teens. How common folks don't get this is mesmerizing. It's actually common sense. Someone at 19/20 is nowhere near what they're going to be at 25 and beyond. Someone who should still be in college and can't even legally drink yet, isn't going to be the same player they will be when they are a mature adult Notice how guys who get drafted as 4/5th year players out of college come in the league and are more ready for some rotation minutes in the nba? now take a look at 1 year college players and how much they likely struggle with consistently good play in year 1 Some of yall are way too fixated on this obsession of this one on one iso bs. Bari could literally take his midrange post or face up any time he wants. It's already a proven great shot for him and it isn't getting blocked
Mostly agree. Chet is taller and has better vision. A lot of his advantages are that he uses his height so well (a lot of guys just don't take advantage of the height advantage). If Chet has a healthy career, it is going to be tough for JSJ to be better. If Chet doesn't have a healthy career, it is going to be tough for Chet to be better.
Stats and metrics still say that Chet is the better player with a year less of development. It’s not a knock on ‘Bari as he’s show much improvement, but he’s just not better and that’s okay. There’s nothing preconceived about watching both of them play this season and noticing Chet is a better player. I’m not sure what opinion would’ve formed of Chet when he hasn’t played?
EPM is generally regarded as the best of the public overall metrics. Chet is killing JSJ there as EPM basically puts a lot of credit for OKC being great so far to SGA, Chet, and Jalen Williams. This isn't to say JSJ isn't having a good year. He's been great for age/experience and looks like he might have a huge jump soon.
I've never said Chet isn't a better player. I'm saying that there are very similar metrics between Chet and Bari such that it's weird to say that one is really good and one is "overrated." I want to this whole discussion into context. Do I think Chet will end up being a better player? Probably, assuming he's healthy, but that doesn't mean I think he will FOR SURE be a better player. Do I think Bari will be the #1 option on a contending team? Probably not -- I think, more realistically, he's the #3 in a Bosh/MPJ/Horace Grant role. But I do think his ceiling is a #1 guy, and I also think it's ludicrous for people to argue that his current playing "style" at 20 is somehow determinative of how he'll perform in his prime. It's not, and history shows this.
I'm more talking about the type of player they are when they are 19/20. I feel like that doesn't change no matter what their actual skill is. If you look at all the stars that were drafted at age 19/20, they are just a improved version of their rookie self. Tatum, Luka, Jokic, Booker were offensive creators at 20 years old, they just elevated that part of their game. Let's take a recent example of Paolo, he's a offensive creator out of college, and he will continue to do this as he ages. I would never expect him to ever defend like Bari no matter how many years down the line. The only player that I can name that started off as a purely 3 and D player and totally blossomed offensively is Mikal Bridges. But most people still consider him to be just a 3 & D player on steroids. Jabari is just not as naturally gifted on offense, I think some things are god given. What he can do is improve his shooting from all over the floor and get stronger so he can back down smaller players
outside of jokic who is an anomaly, notice how you're talking about guards and ball handlers. JS isn't in their mold
