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J.J. Redick the best shooter since Ray Allen and Reggie Miller

Discussion in 'NBA Draft' started by jopatmc, May 19, 2006.

  1. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    The last 5 minutes of last night's games were played in the half court sets and were determined by execution.

    While I do agree that championship calibar teams must be able to play at multiple tempos trigger some transition points, it is not the sole focus of what championship teams do.

    Last time I checked both Detroit and San Antonio were headed to game sevens on their home courts. Dallas is much improved because of their defense but they still couldn't take out the Spurs last night with all the odds stacked in their favor.

    All balanced teams have players that can do all sorts of things. Brent Barry doesn't post up. RIP Hamilton doesn't post up. But they do have player that can post up.

    You want points in transition? How about a rebound from Yao, throw it out to Rafer, Rafer pushes the ball hard to the rim, and then throws it out to Redick spotting at the 3 point line. Think he could get open? Think he could can that shot?

    It doesn't do away with team defense. It doesn't do away with having players on your team that can post up. It doesn't do away with players that can rotate defensively and have speed and quickness to get out on the fast break and fill the lanes.

    J.J. is one player. Maybe, he is one dimensional. So what. Half the players in this league are one dimensional and over half the players on our team are either one dimensional or zero dimensional. RyBo is zero dimensional. Bogans is one dimensional. Rafer is one dimensional. J.J. is one dimensional in the single most important, fundamental skill of basketball. Defense is great, it is extremely important. Rebounding is critical. Passing is extremely important. But none of it works without somebody that can knock down the shot.

    If you think J.J. can't get his own shot, you've got another thing coming. No player on this planet can get their own shot if they are triple teamed, including Kobe, McGrady, Lebron, Shaq, Garnett, Dirk, and Yao. But they can get their own shot if they are not doubled and are isolated on a defender. J.J. has proven he is able to get his own shot when he is isolated on his defender. Why do you think he was never left to single coverage? On a team where he was constantly badgered defensively from all angles and was the primary focus of every defense he played against, he still got loose and bagged shots from all over the place.

    If Kyle Korver can make $50 million in this league, which he is well on his way to doing, there is a place for Redick in this league. Kyle does one thing and one thing only. He can knock down the shot from anywhere. He cannot defend, he is slow, he cannot rebound, he can't jump, he's as nonathletic as you can get. But he can knock down shots. And for that single reason he is on the floor every night spreading out the defense so AI can go one on one.

    Like I said, offensively if you want to put a hurt on a defensive unit, any defensive unit, just throw J.J., Mike James, and somebody like Donyell Marshall out on the floor with TMac and Yao. When it gets down to the last 5 minutes of the 6th or 7th games of a playoff series, when everything tightens up, when the fast break and transition game magically disappears and is replaced by walk it up half court execution, you want shooters on the floor on the offensive half of the floor, you want defenders on the defensive side of the ball.

    Redick is going to be a player in this league.
     
  2. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    Tip Jar wager?
     
  3. bplld

    bplld Contributing Member

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    LMAO :D
     
  4. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    No wagers. But I am agreeable to making a free will donation. Do you really think he won't have a career in the NBA?
     
  5. Pat

    Pat Contributing Member
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    I'll bet that he has at least a three year career.
     
  6. waran007

    waran007 Member

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    I think most people agree he will have a fairly long career. Where people like me have a problem with him is that he is absolutely not a lottery pick. The people he's compared to are all late first-rounders and 2nd rounders: role players who can come in take a few jumpers before getting yanked again for their bad defense.

    Where as Reggie Miller and Ray Allen (a sick athlete when he was younger) were tall and brought other things to the table, Redick is purely a shooter off the bench-type guy.
     
  7. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    No disagreement from me there. I definitely would not take him top 10. But I do like the idea of working out a trade/trades for an extra first rounder to pick him up in the mid teens or lower if he slides. I think we can get more for #8 than just Redick if we are smart. But I'd like to have him on our team coming off the bench. Whoever gets him is going to have a player that can come in the game and get quick double figure points with a few touches. He's a zone buster plain and simple. And the zone is now legal in the NBA, isn't it?
     
  8. terse

    terse Member

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    I would take a chance on Redick at #8. I see no probable starters anywhere in the draft this year, not even Aldridge, Morrison, or Roy. (Except perhaps for the Euros, but I know nothing about them.)

    Redick will probably be a scrub too, but there is a chance that he could be a good deal more than that, especially on our team. No one else in the draft has as much potential upside on our team as Redick. So I'm willing to gamble.
     
  9. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    A little bit of a side note: why are people talking about guys creating there own shot. Have they not been watching the Rockets? Our problems on offense have nothing to do with getting open looks, they have to do with making the wide open shots that we get. In that role, Redick would be perfect. I think we could trade down and get him and someone else, either by getting 2 picks or by getting a lower pick and a player that fits into one of our TEs.
     
  10. tiger0330

    tiger0330 Contributing Member

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    Korver at least has size and he signed a six year deal for 27M in 2005, nowhere near $50M. Redick will never be more than a rotation player in the NBA because he is so one dimensional and I don't see how you can get so excited about someone who will only be as good as Korver, Steve Kerr or Fred Hoiberg.
     
  11. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    I'm am not 'excited about him'. I'm simply stating he's the best shooter to come along since Ray Allen and he will prove it in this league. Korver doesn't have size either. He may have 1 inch on Redick, that's not size. Korver already has $27 million under his belt plus whatever he is going to make after that. He will approach $50 million in earnings if he keeps shooting.

    Steve Kerr is a great example of a one dimensional player who wound up on the right team and had a long career of 15 years while putting up 45% from 3 point land and winning championships because he was in the right situation to maximize his special skill.

    I'd take Steve Kerr with a mid teen to lower first round pick and stash him on my bench for ten years or so, especially on a team where he would be able to get looks created by defensive attention given to stopping two superstar players. A 15 year career rotational player is very good value for a mid to late first round pick. 15 years and 4 championships playing an important role on a championship team.
     
  12. tiger0330

    tiger0330 Contributing Member

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    Korver is listed at 6'6", the average height for a SG in the NBA, I was comparing him to Redick who is undersized at 6'4". Steve Kerr was fortunate to play with some great teams and he was a great fit. That won't be the case with the Rox, we are rebuilding and are not finished products like the Bulls and the Spurs. We need shooters, athletes and speed and we need to be selecting a guy that has the possibility of giving us all three not one dimensional players like Redick with the limited opportunities we have to acquire players.
     
  13. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    :rolleyes:
    Korver is listed at 6-6 and 200 lbs. Big whoop. He's average size and J.J. is just a little bit smaller. Like I said, Kyle may have one inch on him. But he doesn't have 1 percent on J.J. when it comes to shooting percentages and range. By the way, Steve Kerr was listed at 6-1. If you just want a shooter that has speed and is an athlete, J.R. Rider is available. There's more to it than that. And we as fans get way too wrapped up in "athleticism" instead of pure baskeball skill, ability, and I.Q. The guys with the skills, athleticism, ability, IQ, heart, and will are 1 in a million and they are named Jordan, Magic, etc. You don't find those for the most part at the middle to late half of the first round of a weak draft. I venture to say all the guys that you are thinking about that have the POSSIBILITY of fitting into that mold are already off the board by pick 10.

    Steve Kerr was drafted at #50, the bottom of the 2nd round in the year he was drafted. Any guesses on why he went so low? Hey, you guessed it! One dimensional undersized SHOOTER. Drafted behind more athletic, faster, bigger, longer shooting guards such as..........Willie Anderson, Jeff Grayer, Gary Grant, Brian Shaw, Vinny Del Negro, Everette Stephens, Grant Long, Sylvester Gray, Ledell Eackles, Jeff Moe, Morlon Wiley, etc. etc. etc. Yeah, some of those guys had okay careers. But most of them busted. Now granted there were a lot of very good 3 point shooters that were undersized or slow or nonathletic or some combination of all three that were flops also. But you have to be able to recognize an OUTSTANDING SKILL. Even though the player is one dimensional, do they possess ONE OUTSTANDING SKILL? Not one really good skill, not a lot of very good skills, but ONE OUTSTANDING SKILL, that makes the opponents cringe at the thought of it and makes opposing coaches have to gameplan for. Kerr possessed ONE OUTSTANDING SKILL.
     
  14. dsmith

    dsmith Member

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    :)
    I agree!!!
     
  15. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    ^
    l l
    l l

    Uh oh, kiss of death. Now I know he won't make it.
     
  16. tiger0330

    tiger0330 Contributing Member

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    Redick at 6'4" with no athletic ability is a definite liability and you make Steve Kerr sound like a superstar rather than the journeyman NBA player that scored 6 PPG during his entire career. Kerr did have that exceptional ability to hit the three but did that translate into a guy that had enormous impact on a game, 6ppg indicates not. Redick can only hope to have the longevity that Kerr had but I see him having a career like Kerr, a specialist like Kerr who plays limited minutes because he can only play on one side of the ball and gets limited touches because he is only a spot up shooter.
     
  17. munco

    munco Member

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    This guy is a good shooter, but he's a huge risk to be a good player in the NBA. At Duke the offense revolved around him, that's pretty unlikely to be the case on any NBA team he plays on unless he does become a star. In addition to not being the focal point of an offense in the NBA, the guy is a short 6'4" guard that is unathletic. Maybe there's someone out there, but I can't think of any good unathletic undersized shooting guards in the NBA right now.
     
  18. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    A lot of guys in the NBA had the offense run through them in college-- but it doesn't in the NBA. Redick is a smart player. If others can learn and adapt there is no reason to expect less of him. He's got a good, humble head on his shoulders. That counts for a lot in the wacky world of money and fame.

    Also I want to add the Redick is deceptively athletic-- moreso than Trajan Langdon. He's not Magette but just because he isn't a dunk machine doesn't mean he's not athletic.
     
  19. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    Spot up shooters who are not quick and strong enough to create their own shot come off the bench in the NBA.

    how many minutes depends upon their shooting %

    If Reddick can shoot like he did in college he could be a nice 15 min. per game shooting specialist.

    I wouldn't expect him to start unless he is surprisingly stronger and quicker than he looks.
     
  20. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    Without a doubt Redick's shooting can be compared with Ray Allen and Reggie Miller. His range and accuracy with the high volume he shot at was outstanding. In the NBA it does seem that the one outstanding skill that find a place onto a team onto a team (shot blocking, outside shooting, lockdown defense, etc). Add in that Redick is slightly more athletic than he looks and he might have a decent to good career.

    Comparing him to Stockton is unfair cuz Stockton was a great ballhandler in charge of running the offense. A better comparison would be Jeff Hornacek. There's others with similar physical attributes-Drazen Petrovic, Danny Ainge, Steve Kerr, Mark Price, Craig Ehlo, Jon Barry, John Paxson, Rex Walters, Jon Sunvold (okay i'm just trying to make a white player list... :eek: ) Most of those guys had ball handling or point guard skills. Thats where Redick's gonna be in trouble cuz he's a two guard who fires up shots with limited handles. He can handle in his set space when it's time to create a shot for himself (yes he can create) to shake a guy or dribble then stop on a dime. An Eddie House/Saleem Stoudamire type seems to be where his game figures but he has a more consistent shot so can be used more....

    Best case a Ricky Pierce/Hersey Hawkins type but again these guys either could handle the ball and dish, had strength, defend or can do SOMETHING else... a worst case scenario would be Shawn Respert...ugh! Trying to give the guy a chance but today's NBA his game isnt easily transferable to where he can be a stud
     

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