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I've seen enough, Harden is the real problem

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by SamFisher, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I didn't say that.
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Huh? I never said Harden was a low usage guy.
     
  3. Briand2714

    Briand2714 Member

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    I said provide the evidence. what part of that don't you understand?

    All I see that is the guys who are supposed to be good on defense all had the worst year in their career defensively. that's just simply failing to do their job
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Incredible how everyone except the worst defender on the team just got worse on defense.

    Stunning
     
  5. Briand2714

    Briand2714 Member

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    yes you did, because if it was all about individual performance, no way Steven Adams >> KD, Westbrook, etc.
     
  6. Briand2714

    Briand2714 Member

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    still no evidence. I'm waiting.
     
  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    If a guy plays few minutes and has low usage, he can have a high ORtg even though he's not a great offensive player. That's not a team thing, that's a low minute and usage thing.
     
  8. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    So why is Ariza's defensive rating this year WORST THAN HARDEN'S?

    In fact, it went from 103 last year to 108.2 this year.

    Oh shoot, what happened to Bev? His rating went from 105.9 (which means in YOUR explanation, he was a worse defender than Harden last year) to 109.6 this year.

    I could look at the entire team's defensive rating but I think we have a pretty clear picture that EVERYONE's defense, according to your favorite stat, declined and not just Harden's.
     
  9. francis 4 prez

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    i can't even think of another team that shoots a single 3 in their games. no wonder all of the other teams win.
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Npi RAPM shows the same thing.

    I've already given you defensive real plus minus and Drtg.
     
  11. Briand2714

    Briand2714 Member

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    how does low usage and minutes bump up your Ortg if you suck at offense? please explain.
     
  12. aelliott

    aelliott Member

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    You aren't understanding offensive or defensive rating. The stat is the points produced by the team for each 100 possessions the player is on the floor. It's not that individual players points for each 100 possessions, it's the teams points.

    If it was an individual stat then it would just be Points Per Possession multiplied by 100. All you have to do is pick a player on the Rockets, take their PPP and multiply by 100 and you'll see that it doesn't match that players offensive rating.

    If two players are always on the court together than they will have the same offensive rating regardless how many points either of them scores. That's because it's a team stat not an individual stat.
     
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  13. Briand2714

    Briand2714 Member

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    and Harden ranks somewhere in the middle among all players and SGs, just as Dwight. try another one.
     
  14. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    B-b-b-b-b-b-but ortgs and drtgs, bro.
    :rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Well I didn't say everyone else didn't necessarily get worse, im saying Harden is clearly the worst defender on the team and he barely tries or even moves some games
     
  16. ksny15

    ksny15 Member

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    So it's Hardens fault Bev, Dwight and Ariza can't defend well anymore right?
     
  17. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    You asked me this question:

    As if it either did not happen or I was stupid to even have considered the notion. Then I used your own favorite stat to point out that it did happen (which, btw, you're welcome in that I actually provided links to data and not spout off nonsense).

    Basically like what I and a few others have been saying already: Your usage of these stats says nothing about Harden, the player, and is more of a picture of the team's mediocre year. If you cannot get that then at least get that this team sucked but Harden isn't/wasn't the main culprit.
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    This isn't right. There's a team ORtg and there's an individual ortg. They are different stats.

    This is the best explanation I have read:

    "Individual offensive rating is points produced per 100 individual possessions used. The stat was developed by Dean Oliver, as mentioned above. The stat incorporates points scored, assists, offensive rebounds, shooting efficiency and turnovers. It's the most comprehensive measure of individual efficiency available. It isn't perfect because it uses value estimates based on team context for assists and offensive rebounds. Someone over at APBRmetrics extracted data from play-by-plays, which changed the ratings a bit for some players. Overall, offensive rating for individuals is very useful."
     
  19. Ranny

    Ranny Member

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    Harden is the root of all evil, he is the cause of famine, global warming and terrorism. Whenever there is an earthquake, its Harden's fault. If Trump gets elected, that is all on Harden.

    Oh yeah he is also the reason why his teammates cannot make a fukkkkkking shot if their lives depended on it.

    :rolleyes:
     
  20. Briand2714

    Briand2714 Member

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    just some random post from realgm. is that why you failed to link the source this time?
     

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