"You said the Spurs were getting breaks, and you act like the Lakers were perfectly fine today. That is a basis for you to be one sided in this case." When bro?? Show me some evidence of this, because im having a hard time remembering when i did. I act like the Lakers were perfectly fine? When did i do this? I havnt said anything all day about the lakers. I'm one sided in this case? Isnt your email slamduncan or something like that ? ------------------ http://www.democrats.com mgh 1925-2001
Starting a thread entitled "Refs screwing Dallas already" implies you feel the Spurs are getting breaks. You haven't said anything all day about the Lakers? Remember this? Saying this also implies you think the Lakers played perfectly fine. Cat, you 're wrong on this one, Shaq is playing like a man amongst boys right now. Referees arent getting those rebounds, hitting those hooks or swatting shots away. Sometimes shaq gets away with calls but so do the centers going up against him. The referees arent helping the lakers, and I think that is pretty lame that anyone thinks they would. Give the Lakers and Shaq some credit. ------------------ President of the Mo Taylor, Jason Collier, and draft Richard Jefferson fan club! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! Sign up for season 2 of the CC.net NBA Sim League! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000328.html
Yeah, i also remember this in that statement,"Sometimes shaq gets away with calls but so do the centers going up against him." And you still havnt shown me where ive said the spurs get all the breaks, ------------------ http://www.democrats.com mgh 1925-2001
You may not have said it directly, but starting a thread titled "Refs screwing Dallas already" clearly implies that you feel the Spurs were getting a lot of the breaks. ------------------ President of the Mo Taylor, Jason Collier, and draft Richard Jefferson fan club! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! Sign up for season 2 of the CC.net NBA Sim League! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000328.html
what? you know thats not true, you are just trying to find something man. This came from all the bogus calls the jazz were getting , and i was saying here we go again, dallas getting screwed already. besides where in my thread does it say san antonio is getting all the breaks ???? this is not good enough and you know it.. ------------------ http://www.democrats.com mgh 1925-2001
If Dallas is being screwed, then obviously, the Spurs are the benifit of the screwing. ------------------ Founder and President of the Houston Homers Club(HHC) - Are you a homer? Join now! The Rockets will be NBA champions. Believe.
uhh, yeah ???? and??? thats one bad call the officials made??? if they did the same thing in a raptor / sixer game i would make the same thread, my point is it had nothing to do with the spurs. ------------------ http://www.democrats.com mgh 1925-2001
It is pathetic how the freakin refs are helping out the damn Lakers. The reason Shaq is playing like a man amongst boys is because he is allowed to do whatever the hell he likes. He wouldnt be that big of a man sitting on the stupid bench. When you are constantly allowed to stay in the paint for more then three seconds, when you are allowed to throw elbows and push off with your other arm, when you are constantly playing illegal defense, alot of players can become a man amongst the boys. Dont get me wrong. Shaq is the number one player in the league, but he gets even better because of these messed up refs. I think Stern has told the refs on how to call a game. The rating have been suffering big time the last couple of years. Lakers bring big time ratings. What the NBA fails to realize is that more fans will be attracted if there was a level field of play. Just look at the NFL. Baltimore won the championship last year. That is equillant to the Bucks winning the NBA championship. But does anyoen ever think a small market like Milwaukee will be allowed to win a championship in the NBA? The NBA needs parity like the NFL. Why the hell is the NFL so popular? Because no one team is truly favored by the league, because good teams are marketed over individual players. The NFL rather market Baltimore or ST Louis or the Titans or whoever the hell is deserving. The NBA is constantly trying to shove down the Lakers or Bulls or Knicks down our throats. And I for one am tired of all this **** that the NBA pulls. I used to be one of the biggest fans of the NBA, now I could care less about it except for the Rockets. ------------------
People that actually believe in this conspiracy theory are amazing to me. Okay conspiracy theorists, if Stern goes around telling refs to make calls for the Lakers, why hasn't any disgruntled official stepped out and said anything? There are quite a few refs out there that are jobless that could easily make up a story about Stern telling refs to help the Lakers win. Why aren't they coming out and saying the NBA is fixed? When I see Shaq play I see him get fouled harder than any other center in the league. The reason it doesn't look so bad is because he's freaking huge and it takes a lot more to move him around than the average center. Maybe he gets away with calls, but so does every other center in the league... Also I'd like to add that the Lakers shot a whopping 5 more FT's than the Kings. They actually made 2 less FT's than the Kings. 5 more free throws, big freaking deal... ------------------ Saturday, Donny, is shabbas, the Jewish day of rest. That means I don't work, I don't drive a car, I don't f***** ride in a car, I don't handle money, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as s*** don't f****** roll! [This message has been edited by Band Geek Mobster (edited May 07, 2001).]
This topic is so silly. Conspiracy? I work in advertising and I never hear any exec say "I hope the Lakers win so we can charge more for a 30 second spot." If there is conspiracy, why are the Knicks at home? This is the dominant market BY FAR in the US. Lets take a look at the facts. Beside the Lakers, the rest of the teams are from small markets except Philly and Dallas which are 18th and 21st, respectively as recently as December 2000. Milwaukee has marketing power? Nope. What about Dallas? This is an emerging market in all major sports except hockey which is currently down. You think the NBA is going to fix it for them? Nope. What about Charlotte? How did they get here past the high and mighty Riley if this was a conspiracy. Or is Riley losing his luster? What better ratings can there be than have Riley and Mourning in the playoffs and using the "inspirational return" of Mourning to pump up ratings? Where are they now, theorists? Or Utah who could use the whole "last hurrah for two warriors" angle to get the sentimental viewer to the set. Where are they now, Kitty Cat? Sacramento? Now there is a good marketing team since they have the "White Chocolate" and Webber. But they will be gone pretty soon so the NBA is gonna tell the refs to go with Webber/Chocolate or Kobe/Shaq? Hmm...I am guessing Kobster/Shaq until San Antonio shows up and lets face it, has a top star who is as marketable as Gumby. Duncan has the charisma of a can of tomatoes. And they might win the whole thing.Toronto! They have Vinsanity! Air Canada! So, I guess that is why they beat the Knicks! It wasn't because they beat the Knicks 3 out of 4 in the regular season and could of possibly been the better team all along? Oh, wait. I know. The NBA must have had someone from the league hold Cambys family hostage so that he couldn't concentrate on the series and that right there tipped the scales for Toronto, who advanced, and now the NBA can market Vince instead of that boring Allan Houston or that criminally insane Latrell Sprewell. Oh sure, the refs are under Sterns thumb so ratings can be secured. Let me ask you these two questions. One, were our championships conspiracy driven since Dream was just so marketable? Come to think of it, I did see Dream in Nike spots with Jordan and Barkley. Remember that?I don't. Thats my point. I would hate to think that we won DESPITE the refs giving every call to NY and Orlando and not because we had the better teams those two years. I mean, we couldn't have had the better team those two years, could we? Or the best player by far who probably went against the NBA's wishes and decided to screw Stern. Yea, thats it. Dream was on a mission for truth, justice and the American way? Or the basketball way? Or was it the Dreamshake way? Two, are you conspiracy theorists going to rear your ugly mug when Francis gets so good that other defender won't be able to lay a hand on him without getting a whistle? Its gonna happen, you know. Are you going to then say that because Steve is such a big star and he wears Reebok shoes and that Reebok is paying Stern who turns around and uses some of that money and gives trips to Tahiti to the refs so that we can have Stevie in a marketing position for the NBA? Did you guys not see that Dream traveled almost everytime he made a move to the basket? Yea, he did. Use the slow mo button on your VCR or TIVO or whatever when you get a chance. Most times, Dream shuffled his feet. But, I guess the refs were ordered by the NBA to never call that since Dream is such a marketable megastar, huh? Hey, Kitty Cat, check out your boy Mobley. Quickest first step in the league? Technically, no. If you look closely, his back foot is OFF the ground before he dribbles. Technically, this is a violation of an NBA rule that says you can't do that. But I guess Mobley gets away with it because he is tight with Francis, who wears Reebok and despite the fact that Francis palms the ball when he does a cross over dribble, they all get away with it because they are up and coming stars that could be marketable by the NBA to make the league richer and more powerful and then Stern could use that influence to run for Ruler of the World! I bet you guys who complain about these refs are the same guys who go to the local courts and cry foul every 2 or 3 points over any ticky tack hit you receive on your way to the basket. Geesh... ------------------ Sleepless in the Bronx
Actually every player picks up their foot on the drive. And practically every big man camps in the paint for 3 seconds, and Dream tended to travel on some of his moves, as did every good big man, but you know what? Those moves are so borderline the refs let them go because those are signature moves. I don't think there's a conspiracy, I just think the officials have bought into the "Shaq is unstoppable" hype and now they are afraid to call fouls on him, but call fouls on people who play half way defense on him because, you know, he's UNSTOPPABLE! That's my problem with so many whistles being made against guys guarding Shaq. ------------------ See the three, be the three. [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited May 07, 2001).]
Almu--simply beautiful. Copy & paste that thing, because inevitably, there will be twenty more "refs suck" threads in the next few weeks. ------------------ Jazzkiller
It is pretty well known that the stars in the NBA get away with alot from the refs. Michael Jordan consistently palmed the ball and as much as I hate to admit it Dream did travel every now and then. As for Shaq he is one big offensive foul. Worse off when the stars often commit fouls the refs will call them on someone else from the offending team. I remember hearing Steve Kerr once say that MJ foulded somebody under the basket and he was called even though he hadn't crossed the half court line yet. Whether the refs are intentionally favoring the Lakers or not I am sick of the NBA and advertisers cramming them down our throats. ------------------
The Cat, Your damn right the Lakers got all the calls yesterday, The Kings were flat out robbed no question about it. I cant believe you were argueing with me last year about the Pacers not getting cheated by the clown refs. Disregard anything this Almu character has to say because he is the biggest Jordan fan ever and he never thinks a team gets bad calls. Swopa is a die hard laker fan so her or should I say it opinions are one sided like the calls Shaq gets. Why cant Pollard take a falgrant on Shaq and separate his shoulder. ------------------
If there is conspiracy, why are the Knicks at home? This is the dominant market BY FAR in the US. Because nationwide, Toronto would provide you with just as many or more viewers than NY would. The Knicks are good, but I guarantee you that personally I'm a lot more interested in watching a game with Vince Carter than I am the Knicks, and I'm not alone there. What about Charlotte? How did they get here past the high and mighty Riley if this was a conspiracy. Or is Riley losing his luster? What better ratings can there be than have Riley and Mourning in the playoffs and using the "inspirational return" of Mourning to pump up ratings? The Hornets were so much better than the Heat there was nothing anyone could do about it. I'm not saying there is a full fledged conspiracy to make certain teams win... I just think that at some of the key moments in big games officials tend to give teams with big stars from big markets the benefit of the doubt, such as Kobe and Shaq and the Lakers. It doesn't always decide the outcome of a game-- but in a close game, it definitely can make a difference. The Hornets were so dominant it wouldn't have matter how many fouls you called. Or Utah who could use the whole "last hurrah for two warriors" angle to get the sentimental viewer to the set. Dallas is a MUCH bigger market than Salt Lake city, and more people are interested in watching Cuban and his young Mavs, so the officials would not have any reason to be biased toward the Jazz. But they will be gone pretty soon so the NBA is gonna tell the refs to go with Webber/Chocolate or Kobe/Shaq? Hmm...I am guessing Kobster/Shaq until San Antonio shows up and lets face it, has a top star who is as marketable as Gumby. Duncan has the charisma of a can of tomatoes. And they might win the whole thing. Unfortunately, probably not. The NBA does need, for the best ratings possible, the right to say that the two best teams in the league by regular season record, SPurs and Lakers, are playing each other. The refs know its good for the NBA, and while it isn't a full fledged conspiracy for either team, they both, particularly the Lakers, get a lot of the benefit of the doubt. Toronto! They have Vinsanity! Air Canada! So, I guess that is why they beat the Knicks! It wasn't because they beat the Knicks 3 out of 4 in the regular season and could of possibly been the better team all along? Oh, wait. I know. The NBA must have had someone from the league hold Cambys family hostage so that he couldn't concentrate on the series and that right there tipped the scales for Toronto, who advanced, and now the NBA can market Vince instead of that boring Allan Houston or that criminally insane Latrell Sprewell. Did I say every playoff series and every moment was a conspiracy? No! That was a fair series! For the most part, the playoffs are a fair game, except for a few occurences in which the Lakers seem to always get the benefit of the doubt. Don't put words in my mouth. The NBA had great ratings during our championship years btw, which is the whole premise of my argument that the Lakers get some of the key breaks, or at least more than they should. So there was no reason for the league to hope for an NY or Orlando win over us. Two, are you conspiracy theorists going to rear your ugly mug when Francis gets so good that other defender won't be able to lay a hand on him without getting a whistle? Its gonna happen, you know. Are you going to then say that because Steve is such a big star and he wears Reebok shoes and that Reebok is paying Stern who turns around and uses some of that money and gives trips to Tahiti to the refs so that we can have Stevie in a marketing position for the NBA? That's one of those things I'll have to see to believe. I can't imagine a Houston athlete getting that treatment. Did you guys not see that Dream traveled almost everytime he made a move to the basket? Yea, he did. Use the slow mo button on your VCR or TIVO or whatever when you get a chance. Most times, Dream shuffled his feet. But, I guess the refs were ordered by the NBA to never call that since Dream is such a marketable megastar, huh? I have numerous tapes of the Rockets during their glory years, but I certainly don't see the shuffling of the feet. Hey, Kitty Cat, check out your boy Mobley. Quickest first step in the league? Technically, no. If you look closely, his back foot is OFF the ground before he dribbles. Technically, this is a violation of an NBA rule that says you can't do that. But I guess Mobley gets away with it because he is tight with Francis, who wears Reebok and despite the fact that Francis palms the ball when he does a cross over dribble, they all get away with it because they are up and coming stars that could be marketable by the NBA to make the league richer and more powerful and then Stern could use that influence to run for Ruler of the World! Again, I really don't know what you're talking about. Once in a long while these things might happen, as with all teams, but they certainly don't happen consistently like this garbage with the Lakers occurs. And yes, I have tapes from this year as well that I will look to check this. I bet you guys who complain about these refs are the same guys who go to the local courts and cry foul every 2 or 3 points over any ticky tack hit you receive on your way to the basket. No, I don't do that at all. I play the way everyone else is playing-- if people are calling it tight, I'll complain about fouls. If it's physical, I won't say a word. All I care about is that it's equal and fair on both sides, and with the Lakers these last two playoffs, there are several instances in which it hasn't been. ------------------ President of the Mo Taylor, Jason Collier, and draft Richard Jefferson fan club! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! Sign up for season 2 of the CC.net NBA Sim League! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000328.html
I love reading these debates. Even though I don't necessarily think there is a conspiracy, for the reason Band Geek Mobster stated above (some ex-ref would have spilled the beans by now). But Cat does so well arguing his point, it is fun to read. ------------------ Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
I think the Question is BALANCE Everyone breaks the rules it just seems that for some teams they get the benefit of type/timing/personel King's Vlade will get a offensive foul call which is his 5th in the last two minutes of a game SHAQ WILL NOT HAVE THIS CALLED ON HIM [unless the game is well in hand] Gary Payton will get a Jump ball on a vicious hack more so that avg guard #3 I know they are Marquee players but I don't call that respect. . .I call it cheating If gary can get away with it . .. fine DON'T CALL Eman Davis for it the next play down. I also don't like MAKE UP CALLS 3 fouls on Vlade in the 1st CANNOT BE MADE UP by 3 fouls on Kobe in the 4th Rocket Rive Balance. . that is all i ask ------------------
You guys need to remember Shaq's competition too. Vlade Divac! He is the King of Flopping centers, you make an all-flopping team, and that dude is your starter. He makes every center look like they're abusing him. Cat, How can you be so selective with your conspiracy theories? You can't just pick a series and say "RATINGS RATINGS RATINGS, STERN'S FIXING IT!!!", and then ignore that a New York team got knocked out in the first round against a Toronto team that plays second fiddle in their own city!!! The freaking Maple Leafs are on the verge of going to the conference finals, do you think Toronto fan cares about basketball when the Stanley Cup is within reach? Yeah you said that the calls were obvious. If the refs chose to ignore the obvious calls against the Knicks would you be crying conspiracy then? The Kings are one of the most if not the most exciting team in the league. If you go around other messageboards, you always see people say "if my team doesn't make it, I want the Kings to make it". The Kings are America's darlings, but you think Stern wants the Lakers to go all the way, despite the love affair everyone has for the Kings. It's the playoffs, most of the time the refs let the players play, if the refs cared about ratings, then Allen Houston and Kurt Thomas wouldn't have gotten into foul trouble in game 5 against Toronto in New York. The Lakers got a whole 5 more free throws than the Kings, sounds like a conspiracy to me... ------------------ Saturday, Donny, is shabbas, the Jewish day of rest. That means I don't work, I don't drive a car, I don't f***** ride in a car, I don't handle money, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as s*** don't f****** roll!
Cat, How can you be so selective with your conspiracy theories? I watch and have watched basketball my entire life, and it's one of my favorite things to do. There are other teams besides the Lakers I dislike. But over the past two years, the number of times I have seen the Lakers get away with countless breaks is astounding, especially compared to opponents and teams in the league. As River said, there seems to be no balance. I can't explain the "conspiracy" (which were your words, not mine) word for word, and never can to suit all of you. However, I refuse to accept that referees can be so biased and stupid time after time, game after game, for two years running. Maybe they can, but it sure seems like they have a rooting interest in the game too by the way some of the calls go. That's really about all I can say. The Kings are America's darlings, but you think Stern wants the Lakers to go all the way, despite the love affair everyone has for the Kings. Maybe NBA fans who watch the game like the Kings, but the majority of the audience out there is Joe Schmo who sits on his couch on Sunday afternoons flipping channels looking for entertainment. Which will make a guy think, "Oh my I have to watch this"-- Chris Webber and a bunch of good players and role players playing as a team or Shaq and Kobe? Unfortunately, when the average fan hears the names Shaq and Kobe they will probably watch that over the Kings. ------------------ President of the Mo Taylor, Jason Collier, and draft Richard Jefferson fan club! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! Sign up for season 2 of the CC.net NBA Sim League! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000328.html
Somehow, I don't think there's that much national interest in whether Donyell Marshall and John Starks get rings. And Donyell's only 27 or 28, so it's early to call this year his "last hurrah." ------------------
