It's (way beyond) time for Hayes to come off the bench.

Man you should have your own church with clear preaching like that! ROFL

 

People who say that Chuck is just an "average defender" must only be focusing on his man defense in the post.

Look, I'm not crazy. I recognize that Chuck's size can be a limitation against a lot of the big PFs in the league. When a 6'5 guy has to guard a skilled 6'10-7'0 post player close to the basket, he's at a disadvantage. I don't care how good he is. But Chuck does an admirable job in that situation anyways. He's almost impossible to back down, and he's very good at stripping the ball when players go up for the shot. But if you want to say he's just "average" overall in his post defense due to the size deficit, I won't argue that point.

But there's so much more to a defense than that. Chuck is a superior defender against players who face up. His help defense is very strong. He's excellent on pick and rolls. And he's a reliable defensive rebounder. Putting everything together, Chuck has an immense positive impact on the defensive end. And it's amazing how consistent that phenomenon is.

Every season he's been in the league, his On/Off defensive impact has been extraordinarily strong. Some may claim it's just a fluke, but the consistency of it makes that harder and harder to believe.

See these numbers on points given up to the opposing team per 100 possession with Chuck On and Off the court:

Code:

         [B]min    On     Off     Net[/B]
07/08    282   97.3   108.6   -11.4 
06/07   1713   96.5   105.6    -9.1
05/06    534   96.2   106.3   -10.1

 

Don't necessarily disagree with your assessment of Hayes' game (I'll even agree with Hayes' 6'5" in height, at least when he is wearing his basketball shoes). But when you have Hayes, Battier, and Alston all playing together, where in the hell do you think we are going to get points from? It is so easy for teams to double team Yao and provide help defense on McGrady to limit the scoring. At least one of those players needs to go to the bench and another needs to get decreased playing time depending on matchups.

 

Watching the games, I think Chuck Hayes is our third-best player. The intensity of play, the defense effectiveness, and even the spacing and sharpness of passing worsens significantly when he leaves the game. If Mike James somehow turns a corner and starts scoring better, I might call for him to start, but right now I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that Chuck Hayes is the Rockets' starter as long as he's healthy.

 

You are kidding me... Chuck hayes is a liability on the floor and everyone team we play exploits it! This is not a Rick Adelman team, this is a Van Gundy team trying to play Adelman offense! Starting 5 for Sacramento during Adelman's glory years were

5-Divac,4-Webber,3-Stojakvic,2-Christie,1-Bibby.

5-Yao,4-Hayes,3-Battie,2-Mcgrady,1-Alston


Key reserves for Sac were SF-Turkoglu,PG-Bobby Jackson,PF-Keon Clark,C-Scott Pollard. Key reserves are PF-Scola,G-Mike James,SF-Wells,G-Francis,G-Head. Now if you compare our starting lineup to there lineup someone does belong. Can you gues who? Adelman is not playing the right players for this system! Why not is my question? We will not win without this lineup! Something has got to change!

 

Love Chuck Hayes, Like Battier, Hate Waferman!

But I can promise all of you that think Chuck and Shane should be in the starting lineup: Prediction....if they continue to both start, with or without Waferman; we will not go beyond the second round of the playoffs...if we are LUCKY enough to get that far!

Chuck and Shane can give us EXCELLANT minutes off the bench to shut down other teams best offensive bench players. The should each be playing 15 -20 plus minutes a game on this team unless foul trouble or injury requires more from them. Otherwise, we ain't going nowhere if they are our starters!

Luis Scola will give us adequate defensive on the best power forwards in the Western conference during playoff time because no one can stop them anyway. Chuck doesn't stop them, he just plays good overall. Scola has shown that he can take charges and get offensive rebounds for us as well. His upside potential is only going to get better with the more minutes he has in the NBA. If you want him ready to be a threat and produce 15-20 pts per game during the playoffs, he needs all the time he can get right now to prepare for the playoffs NBA style.

Bonzi is just much better for this team. He can't play defense like Shane, but he will be a much better rebounder than Shane and that gives us more possessions. He is also a much better post up player and scorer than Shane. Shane can obviously shoot three pointers better than Bonzi, but that doesn't intimidate teams or make them change their defensive strategy enough to open up the court more for Tmac and Yao. Coming off the bench, Shane will be better able to shut down the other teams best bench player, and he can be more free to be offensive minded since he won't have to deferr so much to our two stars. Bonzi, will get his confidence back and become the nasty player that he can be if he is in the starting lineup knowing that he will play 30 plus minutes a game. HE KNOWS that this is a contract year. He will be a beast for us down the stretch if we give in to let him get his confidence and rythmn going.

I think everyone agrees that Steve is a better option than Waferman; sheesh anyone at that position is. But Steve will become the leader on this team if given the respect due and a chance to prove it. Tmac will still be our most valuable player, but he is not a motivator for other players on the team. Steve will compete with Tmac for high man in assists. Teams will have to honor all of our starters offensively if we start....and I say again:

STEVE FRANCIS
TRACY MCGRADY
BONZI WELLS
LUIS SCOLA
YAO MING

 

A player who only averages 3.0 ppg is our 3rd best player? If that is true, the Rockets are in trouble!

 

Landry should provide an improvement in offence but is he as good as Chuck
in defense? Scola should be the starter but he is still learning or perhaps he need to the ball more. I like the passes from Steve to Scola in the paint when
they play against the Suns.

 

Hayes is not the problem. Battier isn't the problem. It's the guy starting at PG.

 

BINGO!

 

No, they have plenty of scorers, or at least plenty of players who were scorers in the past. Chuck's defense, offensive rebounding, passing, screens, and movement without the ball makes the whole all better.

 

you couldn't be more right, its as if noone even watches the games.

 

So the reasons for Chuck not starting are:

1. The reigning MVP scored 3 times in row when Chuck was playing him straight up.

2. Rafer is a poor shooter

3. Chuck does not score a lot

4. Chuck isn't a 28 year old Chris Webber

The 3rd one is the only one that a rational person can even make an arguement for. Of course, when you have a starting lineup with 2 of the NBA's top scorers and a bench that consists of a 3 time former All-Star, a guy who averaged a very efficient 20 points two seasons ago, the FIBA 2007 MVP and a power guard who two years ago destroyed the Champion Spurs you probably don't need a big scorer at the PF (assuming the other guys mentioned don't have a horrible stretch of games......which they have).

All Chuck Hayes does is defend like crazy, rebound at a fantastic rate, NEVER takes bad shots, and is arguably a better "glue" guy than Battier. But I understand now. It is Chuck's fault that he is playing with a bunch of guys who are ALL having a horrible stretch of games.

It sounds to me like Chuck is the only guy who is playing as advertised. We should worry about the rest of the squad's inability to score. That was never part of Chuck's game and the fact that he doesn't need the ball to be effective would be a blessing for this team if the other guys where doing their job (scoring).

 

Chuck Hayes is much better than you give him credit for!!
IMHO Scola should only be brought in with Mike James as Mike
knows how to set up Scola up for open shots.
So they should come in together from the bench.
The problem with the starting five is that you are only playing
two scorers, two defensive players and a poor Playmaker.
One of the scorers is having to divert his attention from
scoring to make up the deficiencies of the poor Point Guard,
so in the starting five we only have one and a half scorers.
The way the game is being played these days teams are fielding
four and sometimes five scorers in their starting five.
This is why I have called for Battier to come from the bench
because he can lead the second unit when McGrady is on the bench.
All this can change when we get a) Scola adapted to the nBA game
and b) we get us a playmaker Point Guard who can score every time he is called upon to do so.
c) we get taller, younger and more athletic.

 

I don't think anybody is saying Chuck Hayes is a bad player. But teams don't have to guard him and we are essentially playing 4 on 5 on offense.

Reefer sucks on defense and even more on offense. With him and Hayes we are playing 3 on 5 on offense.

Hayes would be much better of the bench.
Reefer would be much better of the roster.

 

I like Chuck to, but you're tellin me he needs to start? He would not be starting on any other team except the Rockets

 

No.. your problem is guy's on the floor that are not scorers in the least bit. Shane should play the four, move tmac to the 3,well at the 2 and steve at the 1. This would pull the other teams 4 man from doubling down on Yao.

 

Anybody who thinks Chuck can't operate in a cut and move Adelman offense is off their rocker. Anybody who thinks that we have been executing an Adelman cutting offense is off their rocker. Chuck is at his best offensively moving around and cutting to the basket off PnR's. We ain't got Adelman's offense down. It's not Chuck, it's the unit. They ain't cutting and moving the ball like they are supposed to. Chuck is consistently moving out there. You want to compare Sac's lineup and find out who does not belong? It's the point guard.

CHUCK IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

The problem is

1. We are not implementing Adelman's offense and

2. We are not dealing defensively with teams going small on Yao and forcing Yao to defend guys out top that he can't stay with and we are not taking advantage of the size mismatch and punishing the opponent on the offensive end.

Those things have nothing to do with Chuck.

 

This has been tried many times, and outside of a few matchups, it doesn't work. Battier doesn't have the strength to defend good PF's, he's a below average rebounder at the 4, and his release on his three point shot isn't quick enough to really help spacing that much. But the biggest reason why you can't play Battier at the four is because you remove his biggest strength, perimeter defense.

 

After reading this thread it looks like we have a superstar in the team. If he is such valuable commodity, we should be able to use him in a trade and see how many teams are interested in him.

I think he was a free agent during the summer, and if I am not wrong, the Rockets were the only interested team.

So, lets be more realistic and find players that have tangibles instead of the intangibles fans love to write about.