It's (way beyond) time for Hayes to come off the bench.

WHats tha fascination with Webber on this board? He's not a good rebounder anymore, and he can't get any lift off those legs anymore, and is slower than Juwan. In fact, he's just as streaky as Juwan too and doesn't like to go in tha paint anymore. Only thing he has over Juwan now is passing. He would be a huge defensive liabilty. Hayes is undersized but he's servieacable but iagree i would like to get an upgrade but keep hayes. Some nights(a lot of nights) he's our best rebounder. Hayes would be perfect ifhe was 3 inches taller. His height is tha only reason i prefer someone else at tha pf position. Even tho he does a decent job, i hate to seehim on Duncan, DIrk and all tha other athletic bigs.

 

It's not rocket science why an offensive minded coach's team is failing when it is using the same lineup instituted by a defensive minded coach. Your defense is worse with the change in philosophy and your offense is just as bad with the same players.

There's really no logical defense as to why the trio of Battier, Hayes, and Alston is still starting together on this team.

 

Good points

 

Watch the games. The team is much better with Chuck on the floor.

I'm afraid fantasy basketball is dumbing down the casual fan. I present this thread as exhibit A.

 

no offense, but I don't think you've been watching the games closely to start a thread bashing Hayes..

omg dude, wtf is up with all the Chuck hate? we were up 17 when he was in, he was the only reason for Tmac's bank 3, Rafer's 3, and I believe a Battier 3 (all through offensive rebounding).. that's 9 points for us and at least 6 points away from Dallas (since they would have a fast break if he didn't get the offensive rebound).. the guy is a freakin worrior, he plays sick defense, he makes stops, he takes charges, grabs offensive rebounds, sets solid picks, finishes perfectly under the basket, goes to the right spot, makes intelligent moves, dishes out smart interior passes, shoots a little sweet quick floater that goes in 99% of the time, and yet you still don't think he is an asset for this team?

I think we actually lost the game when he went to the bench.. and FYI, Hayes didn't play the majority of the 4th quarter, the same quarter of which we lost our 17 point lead and got owned by "Bass" ...

 

I would also like to add that Chuck Hayes is the heart of this team, he has the same role as the one Sura had back in the 04-05 season.. without him on the floor, we have NO energy whatsoever; he by far our best rebounder (offensively & defensively), defender (yes, better than Battier at his size), hustle player, and finisher around the basket.. he is an absolutely huge asset for this team and I think he is the 3rd most important player on this squad after the 2 superstars.. think about it, we can replace almost every single role player on this team, from Battier to Bonzi, to the guards, but we can't replace Chuck by anyone... even though I absolutely love Scola's game, I think what Chuck brings to the table is waaay more valuable than what Scola does..

need some proof? check the Lenovo stat from last year, he was always a top 5 player and was ranked #1 for a long while as well.. and IIRC, durvasa posted an efficiency stat where Chuck was ranked #1 on this team...

criticize whoever you want, from Rafer to Bonzi to the 2 stars, but don't even come near Chuck Hayes because he is probably the only one doing his job right and giving 1000% of his effort...

 

It's not "Chuck Hayes hate." He's doing his job and I love him as a player. But if you are trying to institute a motion offense, don't come back surprised that it's not working when Hayes, Battier, and Alston are all in your lineup together. Noone said Hayes is a bad player.

 

TERRIBLE argument. Last year's team won based on the strength of its defense. This year's team doesn't emphasize those same defensive philosophies and is trying to implement offense with the same defensive players. Disaster waiting to happen.

 

I find it absolutely amazing that an NBA player in incapable of making a 10 foot jumpshot. Some of the kids (7, 8 and 9 year old) I coached had better jumpshots that Hayes. Why doesn't he work on it??

 

chuck hayes is more than an average defender. he's quite good actually.

cabbage brings up good points though. it may be wise to shake the starters up a little bit.

 

Chuck's been the third best player on the team this season. Rebounding is "slightly above average"? He's leading the team in rebound-rate. And I don't know what the hell you're looking at on the defensive end for you to say he's an "average defender at best". He forces more turnovers, per minute, than any other player on the team, and he also leads the team in per-minute defensive rebounding. He and Battier are easily the most versatile defenders on the team, and they both mask a lot of the mistakes/limitations of the other players (T-Mac and Yao, primarily).

And can you actually show the extent to which Chuck is an "offensive liability"? He can't be any more of an offensive liability than, say, Ben Wallace. Even though Chuck doesn't do a lot on offense, he's the most efficient offensive player on our team. He converts a high percentage on the shots he gets, and he gives the team second chance opportunities. He's the best screener on the team as well, and for a big man his turnovers per touch is very low. There are a ton of players in this league that are much more detrimental to an offense than Chuck.

I just love how people are trying to turn Chuck into the scapegoat after the Mavs game. For you to suggest he was a "liability" in that game is a total joke. We outscored the Mavs by 18 points while he was on the court. That means in the 17 minutes he was off the court, the Mavs whooped us by 22. It just goes to show how blind his critics are.

Well you've already demonstrated that you know nothing about Chuck's game, so I don't think you're in a position to compare Webber's potential contributions to him.

Bonzi is a great rebounder when he's going against guards. To call him a better rebounder than Chuck is just laughable.

 

The thing i would like to see Scola as a starter is to boost his energy and confidence, if that guy gets going (as he has shown before) he can be our 3rd consistent scoring option that we desperately need.

I prefer Scola mistakes now than late in the seasons, and the proof of this is that his game offensively is not nba-or-not his game is about sinking mid-range jump shots, and when the guy is going he can shoot 50% on regular basis.

Also playing with the starters will make him to play better defense as he will understand that he may be ignored sometimes on offense. Playing with the second unit he sometimes got ignored by players shooting below .400 which can make you think "WTF".

 

I love Chuck Hayes' game. But his game is all about energy, which is a weapon best used coming off the bench.

I actually think the only reason he's still starting is that Scola hasn't caught on to NBA styled defense yet. Whereas Chuck's defense IMO ranks top 5 in the league in terms of guarding the post.

 

I'm pretty sure he does practice them. He said in his blog that he shoots before every game. He was a constant fixture in the gym during the entire off season. I presume he worked on more than just layups and hook shots.

 

Sure there is. Can you name the players on the bench who have been good offensive players this season and are worth replacing Rafer, Battier, and Hayes?

Rafer has been terrible -- I'm not going to question replacing him with James or Francis at this point. But have Bonzi or Scola been any good offensively this year? Save for a couple games, they've been terrible. Preseason as well, their turnover rates were through the roof.

Replacing defense with offense sounds perfectly fine in theory. But you need good offensive players for it work.

 

When you guys think of Hayes, think of what Dennis Rodman brought to the Bulls. He brought heart, and was a rebounding madman. Rebounds give you extra possessions and putbacks. Rodman didn't score much either but I can tell you that aside from scoring rebounds are nearly as good as scoring. So before you go bashing Hayes, remember that he is a rebounding beast and he gives us many more possesions that we wouldn't ordinarily have. He stays in.

 

Chuck Hayes doesn't have to step out and shoot 10 foot jumpshots AT ALL.. he is an old-school Power Forward that does all the work inside and scores around the basket..

you guys are so superficial to only focus on shooting and scoring in a game that has way more to it.. durvasa gave a great example in Ben Wallace; how is his shooting? he is possibly the biggest offensive liability you can find in the NBA. how tall is he? only 6'9. how many championships did Detriot win since he left? NONE.. the guy is an absolute beast in rebounding, defense, and doing the right things at the right time.. because he played with "Mo Town's bad boys" and made a lot of noise with Rasheed, he got the attention he deserves and was an allstar several times I believe. because only few of us are insightful enough to recognize how important Hayes is to the team, he is regarded as a "scrub" who is an offensive "liability" ..

dude, Never, Ever, mention Chuck's & Battier's name in the same sentence as Rafer.. Rafer is horrible and he is a liability in every aspect of the game basketball when he is one the court.. Chuck & Shane are our 3rd and 4th best players on this team, and FYI, Shane was our best 3 point shooter last year..

have you even watched the Lakers game in the beginning of the season?

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omg, he is such an offensive liability, let's trade him for an inknown commodity

 

Sure they have been bad, but they are historically better offensive players than what you are running out there right now.

Bonzi Wells historically is a capable offensive weapon.
Steve Francis historically is a capable offensive weapon.
Mike James historically is a capable offensive weapon.
Luis Scola has offensive skills.

You know what Hayes, Battier, and Rafer bring offensively. Absolutely nothing. There is no potential reward with that lineup. If you are trying to win with defense, like JVG did, it will work. But if your emphasis is offense, you can't have those 3 guys playing together - it's not going to work.

 

You just posted a video of a guy hitting a set 3 point shot to highlite his offensive prowess in support of your premise that he is our 3rd/4th best player, and you wonder why this team sucks offensively....

Great argument.