Jordan/Kobe didn't win 60 in regular season and couldn't make finals. They won it all every time. LeBron's team has done it twice in a row, That's huge difference. Actually, I heard only 2 teams in history were this disappointing. I explained why Cavs underperformed in playoff and you simply ignore it. If they don't have enough talent, then how do you explain the huge disparity between regular season and playoff?
I'm seeing essentially two different and incompatible arguments from you. (1) His teammates played well in the regular season, in which case it doesn't make sense to argue that LeBron makes his teammates less effective by citing their regular season stats (which is what you did in your original post). (2) His teammates played poorly in the regular season (as evidenced by their diminished stats), which would mean that LeBron is the one that carried the team to 60+ wins the last couple years because he doesn't know how to share the load with them. It doesn't make sense for you to say that the Cavs' strong regular season reflects the talents of his teammates, while simultaneously arguing that the Cavs are not making use of his teammates' talents. You have to pick an argument, and stick with it.
Yea a lot of lebron I don't like is his demeanor and attitude, he talks baout himself in 3rd person, he blatantly lies in interviews and almost treats us as were stupid "i don't care about individual acc-olades". He says things like a lebron james team with me on the court with any 5 players can win at any time, just throws his teammates under the bus. The NBA has never accomodated a star like him, they made rule changes for this kid, after his rookie year took out hand checking, made the crab dribble legal, you have to understand its a business, so when he has better stats, its better for the league to create this illusion of the golden era. We saw him exposed this series, although to his credit, finally after 7 yers he got a shooting coach last summer, but in the USA games which fiba did not go with nba rule change for lebron for the first time in history bc it did not add to the quality of the game, and he came out unprecedented perception of great stats and being a mvp, and ofcourse was limited with their zone defense and lack of accommodation for his travels and fouls. Then you have one guy threatening to leave his team bc he just wanted to win period, and he was frustrated by management sitting still after telling him otherwise bc htey make money everynight and fill the house ,so he demanded win now or let me win somewhere else, bc thats what i care about, he got bashed for this all over but this is the guy who i want to pay max dollars to, not someone just looking for cash, but winning matters even if he takes a popularity hit, thats what matters most(kobee). On the other hand, you have a guy whose smaller market team bends over backward to spend andn create the most competitive team at all cost for this guy, accomdates to his every need and is effectively trying to proactively win, yet the guy wants to leave for a worse team even, but bigger marketing? which guy do you respect ? everyting he does seems to be for marketing and he makes fools of us to eat it up, his powder thing? yea kg did that for years, lebron copied it and started selling it. The number change? he says its bc hes a student of the game and mj deserves it to be retired, eh did not fele that way when he chose the number? more importantly he chose the number six, any 'student' of the game would know thats bill russels snumber and dr j's, russell won more championships than anyone in the league ever....guess its not good enough for lebron. He has the media in his pocket defending his every move and criticism, look at espn true hoop, they defended the number change in a post, and also the recent criticism of him too, ive never seen them make full post defending players ina climate where bashing is apart of the gig. You have one guy who doesn't want to do olympics to make a movie, you have one guy sitting out 2 weeks for a 'strained pinkie' in 2007-2008. Lebron, you have another with a broken guiding finger, lkearning to play with it, and still getting bashed by the media as he can do no right. You have one guy spending summer regimes more intense tha nanoyone in the league with 5-6 hours starting at dawn to work on his game and flying to houston to learn post moves from the dream...now that is dedication so yea, i just don't respect a lot about him , i give him credit as being the most gifted and athletic player in the league, but not the most skilled. I respect kobe althoug he has flaws and vices, for his work ethic and just dedication to the game above all else. I think lebron's is just a marketing gimmick and is nothing original, i think MJ says it best about hiim: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3243645 I'm out like lebron in the playoffs....
Pretty tough indeed. You have to play with Lebron on the court, and staring at the back of his head in bed.
When did he say that? How do you know the hand-checking rule was done specifically for LeBron and not, say, Kobe Bryant who in that year finally got his own team? I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say they made the crab dribble legal. LeBron was second on the team in scoring (behind Wade), second in assists, third rebounds, 1st in steals and blocks, and he shot 60% from the field and 46% on threes. I thought he did OK. http://www.usabasketball.com/news.php?news_page=moly_2008
Eh... I'm all for giving Lebron a free pass if his teammates suck. We've certainly seen many a bad role player come through Houston before. But as far as I'm concerned, you win 60+ games, you don't have an excuse. You have raised the bar at that point.
so which of lebron's teammates did not suck in the boston series? if you can argue that mo williams/jamison/shaq did not have a bad series on offense, i don't know what to say. and if you can argue that those same 3 weren't exploited terribly on defense, i also don't know what to say. that's 3 of the other 4 starters having terrible series on both ends of the court. and the other starter is anthony parker, who did his part on 3's, but isn't exactly an awesome player. how many teams have 3 starters just sucking in almost every aspect of the game for a whole series and still advance? and except for varejao playing good D (when mike brown let him in the game), what did any other role player do? mo williams hitting 3's in the regular season on the way to 60 wins doesn't mean anything when he continually sucks in the playoffs. lebron didn't have a series for the ages, but 27/9/7 while shutting down paul pierce should be able to get it done. if it doesn't, you're teammates probably sucked.
Because in playoff an opposing team have the time and dedication to analyze you every offensive and defensive strength and liability. Playoff is all about match up. A team without many tactics can easily underperform in playoff. You have LBJ 1on1 and P&R as the only offense, I can train and improve counter defense rotation to perfection. It's even easier as LBJ isn't that good at jump shot, doesn't know how to play low post, doesn't run much without the ball. He can hit some 3 but he's still mostly a one-trick pony. In regular season, teams don't have the time to do that, and don't care that much to begin with. With their talent, they can get what they want to get with limited variation of offense. Do they have the talent to run a better and more sophisticated offense? Do they have the talent to run more offense around other star players and do not force them to be 3pt shooters as they are now? No doubt about that. But you can't just pick it up in playoff. Durvasa you are in denial. You can't explain the disparity with a better theory, you simply choose not to believe.
"Mostly a one-trick pony," and "doesn't run much without the ball" -- no. But the overarching point that the Cavs rely so much on one person and that makes them vulnerable in a playoff series when facing a smart, veteran team is one I agree with. Is this LeBron's fault? Should his team be more successful than they are, but LeBron's refusal to share the ball is holding them back? I very much doubt this. LeBron seems more than willing to share the ball and the responsibilities. Now, if LeBron had his current abilities and on top of that he also had a potent midrange and post-up game, of course his team would be better. But going by that reasoning, you could say every player in the league is at fault to some degree for not being perfect. Maybe coaching could be an issue, but I'm not as down on Mike Brown as some. In the playoffs, you generally need a post presence and more than anything that's what the Cavs were missing. They were counting on Shaq to be that guy I suppose, but he was mostly ineffective against the Celtics front-line and the combo of him and Antawn Jamison was problematic defensively. When you say "their talent", I take it you mean primarily LeBron's talent, right? Because, as you say, the offense is mostly LeBron 1-on-1 and LeBron PnR. But then this undercuts your argument that his teammates are really good because he won 60+ win in back-to-back years. The Cavs won all those games playing a certain way -- a way you maintain is not going to work in the playoffs. Maybe, but if you think the "talent" is there for the team to be more successful than they were in the playoffs, you can't use their success in the regular season as evidence for that. Maybe you're wrong, and if the Cavs tried to "spread the wealth" more they wouldn't be anywhere close to a 60-win team. In which case, who's to say they should be contending for a championship? Do they have the talent to run a more effective offense is how I'd frame this question. You say, "No doubt about that." Well, I think there is doubt there. That's the crux of the disagreement. If this thread has any purpose, it is for you to explain why you're so sure that the Cavs could be running a more effective offense with the players they have but don't do so because LeBron just hogs the ball too much.
Shaq can create, Mo can create, Jamison can create. But other than Shaq was doing what he's doing with fewer minutes. They didn't really do anything else. Mo shoots 48% in bucks for his last season, when his 3pt% wasn't as good as in Cavs, where do you think he got his very high 2pt% from? He can actually penetrate, pull up from mid-range, find an open teammates, you name it. But he doesn't do a lot of them when LeBron was in the lineup, he was just parking in 3pts line after dumping the ball to LeBron. Jamison is a 3.5 too quick for PF and too big for SF. He got his 20/10 in Wizards mostly by creating himself. He can shoot 3 but that's not his strength, but he's parking on 3pts line as well in Cavs. Mike Brown doesn't need to be very creative. Giving the 3 guys above more touches to play 1on1 alone will make the team more balanced. But he conceded because LBJ was so obsessed of stats. That's a big waste of talents. They might not get many more wins, but they'd be able to not depending on LeBron that much. The team have lots of good 3pts shooter, tough defenders. Those were the talents utilized in regular season. Plus in regular season LBJ played fewer minutes and other players had more chances to run the show. Good enough for 60 wins. Once playoff begins, shorter rotation, longer LBJ play time. The opposition focused on shutting down their bread&butter play, Deja Vu.
why is this still going on? goodbug, just explain to me how the world did lebron blind the entire world and get 2 MVPs in a row (by large margins) if he is "tough" to play with. if you can see it so easily, why can't the rest of the voters?
Making the team "more balanced" is not the goal of an NBA coach. His goal is to win games and put his team in the best position to contend for a championship. So, explain how you determined that Mike Brown's decisions were based on LeBron's stats obsession rather than him doing what he thinks is best for the team?
It's called regular season MVPs. LeBron choked in playoff like Malone, only Malone had way more playoff success. Cavs against 50+ team, 1-5 in playoff series. Show me a more hyped or less successful MVP in league history.
The entire organization is about keeping LeBron happy. MB doesn't really coach offense, LeBron does. You don't have to agree what I said. But at least address the disparity of team performance in regular season and playoff. You need to come up with something better than "His teammates just choked in playoff. "
so he's a loser right now. i can't argue with that. he's only 25 years old. winning as the main guy and only all-star takes time apparently (it ain't easy). his career is far from over. get back to me when 8 years from now when he has around 5-6 MVPs and still have 0 rings, and you can talk. karl malone's career is over. lebron's career , despite being in this league for 7 years, still has a long way to go. FYI: karl malone played with another HALL OF FAMER (did you forget him?) in his prime. lebron will get that all-star to play with soon (most likely next year). he'll get his 3-4 rings soon enough.
no he doesn't have to. and you even admit it yourself? reg. season performance is different from playoffs. hence, playoffs are a different beast. some players simply SUCK in the playoffs b/c they can't handle the pressure. each individual player has their own mindset and some just aren't up to par for whatever reason. why do you think joe johnson suck so bad in the playoffs? why do you think jermaine o'neal's production drops in the playoffs throughout his career? why do you think beasley was a ghost in the playoffs? and i can name many other players. the fact of the matter is, the pressure during the reg. season is less than the playoffs. you can tell who is up for the playoffs by how they perform. lebron ELEVATES his game in almost every category year in and year out in the playoffs, including efficiency. and just ANOTHER FYI: lebron's usage rating in reg. season in 09-10: 33.5 his usage rating in playoffs: 30.5 WHAT DOES THAT MEAN: he actually controlled LESS of the offense in the playoffs than reg. season -> others got the ball MORE. i actually thought lebron should have shot more: like 30 shot attempts per game like kobe would do when his teammates suck. maybe then the cavs would have advanced further.
