Trade Battier? are you kidding? he is the leader of this team. he is a player that every coach dreams to have, and every player wants to play with. he's our intangible superstar.
That's not really all that true. The Spurs had the second best record in the league with 59 wins in 04-05 and won a championship with the 18th ranked offense in the league. Most of the Spurs teams have been average offensive teams at best. I also think Detroit had one of the worst offenses in the league when they won back in 2004. Defense does win championships. I think you can ask the Suns and those no defense Dallas teams back in the day if offense wins championships
agreed. You would have to get something really good and if you trade Shane you need a package another player, Shane alone you wouldn't get anything to special.
this guy is as dumb as the nuts out there. he shouldn't be watching BB, instead watch the nascar running in circle, like those hillbillies. This is what I called tunnel vision. you must of not watch one single playoff games of the rockets, except for game7 with the lakers. I suggest you to go back and download some rockets games and then come back and talk to us.
What do the Mavs have to show for wheeling and dealing? Thats my point. Trading away players and starting over doesnt guarantee anything. The Spurs won titles with consistency. The Pistons won theirs that way. The Celtics won by adding KG and Allen, but that took years of being horrible to build the assets it took to make that happen. So the Rox can keep Battier or they can trade Battier. Doesnt guarantee any rings one way or the other.
Battier is a great defender and a leader on the team. I do wonder sometimes if Battier making some one like Kobe work really hard to score is some what mitigated because Kobe doesn't have to work that hard on the defensive end though. I certainly wouldn't be looking to dump Battier, but I wouldn't consider him untouchable either. Like any deal, it is impossible to judge without discussing the exact players that we would be trading him for.
I can't think of another defensive specialist that would be better then Battier. You have more athletic and stronger guys out there, but his skill and technique is second to none. There is a reason why Battier was usually on Kobe this last series besides Artest and Kobe's court antics.
You're also missing the point. Kobe scored 27 points a game and we didn't throw a single double team at him to keep the ball out his hands. Watch this Nuggets series, and watch how double teaming on the catch is going to let Kobe do wahtever he wants. You'll see the tangible difference between Battier and a guy like Dante Jones. Battier allows us to play straight up no matter the matchup and it is one of the reasons that we have had a starwalt defense every season since he's been here. There is a lot of things that we can do to make this team better getting rid of Battier is not on that list.
it doesn't matter what Shane's trade value is at this moment. he's not a free agent. the Rockets can't do a sign and trade for an all-star. they're limited with his now "undervalued" contract. you can't get much for 7 million. remember Mobley and his whining about being underpaid at 6 million a year? even though he was an undersized 2, the Rockets didn't trade him because he was worth more than comparably paid shooting guards. when a team has a player that is playing over the value of his current contract, you keep him at all costs, because you can almost never get equal value back.
from patricia's basketball site. http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries09.txt current players making more than $7 million dollars. Players earning $7 million or more 1. Kevin Garnett (Bos) ......... $24,751,934 2. Jason Kidd (Dal) ............ $21,372,000 2. Jermaine O'Neal (Mia) ....... $21,372,000 4. Kobe Bryant (LAL) ........... $21,262,500 5. Shaquille O'Neal (Pho) ...... $21,000,000 6. Allen Iverson (Det) ......... $20,840,625 6. Stephon Marbury (NY) ........ $20,840,625 8. Tim Duncan (SA) ............. $20,598,704 9. Tracy McGrady (Hou) ......... $20,370,437 10. Ray Allen (Bos) ............. $18,388,430 11. Dirk Nowitzki (Dal) ......... $18,077,904 12. Paul Pierce (Bos) ........... $18,077,903 13. Shawn Marion (Tor) .......... $17,810,000 14. Steve Francis (Por) ......... $17,180,000 released 7/10/07 15. Rashard Lewis (Orl) ......... $16,447,871 16. Michael Redd (Mil) .......... $15,780,000 17. Pau Gasol (LAL) ............. $15,106,000 17. Andrei Kirilenko (Uta) ...... $15,106,000 19. Amare Stoudemire (Pho) ...... $15,070,550 19. Yao Ming (Hou) .............. $15,070,550 21. Mike Bibby (Atl) ............ $14,983,603 22. Vince Carter (NJ) ........... $14,724,125 23. Zach Randolph (LAC) ......... $14,666,667 24. Gilbert Arenas (Was) ........ $14,653,466 25. Ben Wallace (Cle) ........... $14,500,000 26. Kenyon Martin (Den) ......... $14,431,816 27. Carmelo Anthony (Den) ....... $14,410,581 27. Chris Bosh (Tor) ............ $14,410,581 27. LeBron James (Cle) .......... $14,410,581 27. Dwyane Wade (Mia) ........... $14,410,581 31. Joe Johnson (Atl) ........... $14,232,567 32. Lamar Odom (LAL) ............ $14,148,596 33. Rasheed Wallace (Det) ....... $13,930,000 34. Wally Szczerbiak (Cle) ...... $13,775,000 35. Dwight Howard (Orl) ......... $13,758,000 36. Elton Brand (Phi) ........... $13,757,844 37. Richard Jefferson (Mil) ..... $13,200,000 38. Larry Hughes (NY) ........... $12,827,676 39. Raef LaFrentz (Por) ......... $12,722,500 40. Peja Stojakovic (NO) ........ $12,528,000 41. Steve Nash (Pho) ............ $12,250,000 42. Jason Richardson (Pho) ...... $12,222,221 43. Carlos Boozer (Uta) ......... $11,593,817 44. Erick Dampier (Dal) ......... $11,553,000 45. Tony Parker (SA) ............ $11,550,000 46. Brad Miller (Chi) ........... $11,375,000 47. Tyson Chandler (NO) ......... $11,350,000 48. Andre Iguodala (Phi) ........ $11,300,000 49. Baron Davis (LAC) ........... $11,250,000 50. Samuel Dalembert (Phi) ...... $11,238,564 51. Chauncey Billups (Den) ...... $11,050,000 52. Monta Ellis (GS) ............ $11,000,000 52. Al Jefferson (Min) .......... $11,000,000 54. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cle) .... $10,841,615 55. Richard Hamilton (Det) ...... $10,812,500 56. Bobby Simmons (NJ) .......... $10,602,667 57. Andre Miller (Phi) .......... $10,333,334 58. Troy Murphy (Ind) ........... $10,126,984 59. Marcus Camby (LAC) .......... $10,000,000 59. Kirk Hinrich (Chi) .......... $10,000,000 59. Josh Smith (Atl) ............ $10,000,000 62. Josh Howard (Dal) ........... $9,945,000 63. Antawn Jamison (Was) ........ $9,923,285 64. Manu Ginobili (SA) .......... $9,905,248 65. David West (NO) ............. $9,862,500 66. Eddy Curry (NY) ............. $9,723,983 67. Nene (Den) .................. $9,680,000 68. Emeka Okafor (Cha) .......... $9,537,500 69. Chris Kaman (LAC) ........... $9,500,000 69. Tayshaun Prince (Det) ....... $9,500,000 69. Gerald Wallace (Cha) ........ $9,500,000 72. Luol Deng (Chi) ............. $9,385,000 73. Caron Butler (Was) .......... $9,249,980 74. Al Harrington (NY) .......... $9,226,250 75. Jason Terry (Dal) ........... $9,196,000 76. Cuttino Mobley (NY) ......... $9,100,000 retired 12/11 77. Mike Miller (Min) ........... $9,028,575 78. Andris Biedrins (GS) ........ $9,000,000 78. Boris Diaw (Cha) ............ $9,000,000 78. Mike Dunleavy (Ind) ......... $9,000,000 78. Darius Miles (Por) .......... $9,000,000 released 4/14/08 82. Antoine Walker (Mem) ........ $8,854,475 released 12/18 83. Kevin Martin (Sac) .......... $8,760,335 84. Quentin Richardson (NY) ..... $8,685,500 85. Jamal Crawford (GS) ......... $8,640,000 86. Kenny Thomas (Sac) .......... $8,562,500 87. Mark Blount (Mia) ........... $8,513,916 88. Mehmet Okur (Uta) ........... $8,500,000 89. Rasho Nesterovic (Ind) ...... $8,400,000 90. Maurice Williams (Cle) ...... $8,353,000 91. Corey Maggette (GS) ......... $8,275,862 92. T.J. Ford (Ind) ............. $8,000,000 92. Andres Nocioni (Sac) ........ $8,000,000 94. Devin Harris (NJ) ........... $7,800,000 95. Jameer Nelson (Orl) ......... $7,700,000 96. Malik Rose (OKC) ............ $7,647,500 97. Jose Calderon (Tor) ......... $7,438,018 98. Ron Artest (Hou) ............ $7,400,000 99. Juwan Howard (Min) .......... $7,375,500 released 10/29/07 100. Eric Snow (Cle) ............. $7,312,500 retired 101. Drew Gooden (Sac) ........... $7,151,183 102. Stephen Jackson (GS) ........ $7,140,000 103. Darko Milicic (Mem) ......... $7,020,000 104. Jerry Stackhouse (Dal) ...... $7,000,000 ??? Shane Battier (Hou) ......... $6,448,900 all of these guys will be making at least $700k more next season, if they're not free agents. i wish that she had gone down to $5 million, just so people could see how much the talent level drops. if you scroll down the site, you'll see player salaries in order by team, and basically below $6 million dollars, you have scrub players that are lucky to be in the league or rookie contract players. it's very hard to find any big names or even a rock solid starter for less than $7 million.
If you can get someone better than Battier for 6.5mil, trade him. If not, don't trade him. - IT'S SIMPLE LOGIC PEOPLE! It's looking mostly likely that we won't get anyone that's better (fit) than Shane, therefore we probably will not trade him. If you can't come up with players that are worth trading Shane for, you're posting an empty argument. We're all Rockets fans here, we all want this team to win a championship, therefore we should all support decisions that will help towards this goal, whether this means trading Shane or not. Personally, I'd prefer Battier to stay^^
First, he said balance. You have be good at both sides. Second, you are just looking at points per game, you have to look at efficiency or points per 100 possessions...So the last 20 champions... 5 Teams with Off Eff worse than 8th and 4 teams with Def Eff worse than 8th 11 Teams with Off Eff worse than 8th and 8 teams with Def Eff worse than 8th Only two teams are worse than 5th in both, (Heat and 95 Rockets) Basically you need balance, You can be better off or def, but both need to be strong <TABLE><TR><TD>Team</TD><TD>Off Rating </TD><TD>Def. Rating</TD></TR> <TR><TD>2007-08 Celtics</TD> <TD>9th</TD> <TD>1st</TD></TR> <TR><TD>2006-07 Spurs</TD> <TD>5th</TD> <TD>2nd</TD></TR> <TR><TD>2005-06 Heat</TD> <TD>7th</TD> <TD>9th</TD></TR> <TR><TD>2004-05 Spurs</TD> <TD>8th</TD> <TD>1st</TD></TR> <TR><TD>2003-04 Pistons</TD> <TD>18th</TD> <TD>1st</TD></TR> <TR><TD>2002-03 Spurs</TD> <TD>7th</TD> <TD>3rd</TD></TR> <TR><TD>2001-02 Lakers</TD> <TD>2nd</TD> <TD>7th</TD></TR> <TR><TD>2000-01 Lakers</TD> <TD>2nd</TD> <TD>21st</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1999-00 Lakers</TD> <TD>4th</TD> <TD>1st</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1998-99 Spurs</TD> <TD>11th</TD> <TD>1st</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1997-98 Bulls</TD> <TD>8th</TD> <TD>3rd</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1996-97 Bulls</TD> <TD>1st</TD> <TD>4th</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1995-96 Bulls</TD> <TD>1st</TD> <TD>1st</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1994-95 Rockets</TD> <TD>6th</TD> <TD>12th</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1993-94 Rockets</TD> <TD>15th</TD> <TD>2nd</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1992-93 Bulls</TD> <TD>2nd</TD> <TD>7th</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1991-92 Bulls</TD> <TD>1st</TD> <TD>4th</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1990-91 Bulls</TD> <TD>1st</TD> <TD>7th</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1989-90 Pistons</TD> <TD>7th</TD> <TD>3rd</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1988-89 Pistons</TD> <TD>11th</TD> <TD>2nd</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1987-88 Lakers</TD> <TD>2nd</TD> <TD>9th</TD></TR> <TR><TD>1986-87 Lakers</TD> <TD>1st</TD> <TD>7th</TD></TR> </TABLE> Rockets since Yao <TABLE><TABLE><TR><TD>Team</TD><TD>Off Rating</TD><TD>Def. Rating</TD><TR> <TR> <TD> 08-09</TD> <TD> 15th</TD><TD>4th</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> 07-08</TD> <TD> 17th</TD><TD>2nd</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> 06-07</TD> <TD> 15th</TD><TD>3rd</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> 05-06</TD> <TD> 29th</TD><TD>6th</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> 04-05</TD> <TD> 14th</TD><TD>4th</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> 03-04</TD> <TD> 24th</TD><TD>5th</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> 02-03</TD> <TD> 14th</TD><TD>13th</TD></TR></TABLE>
Consider Battier's contract and what he can bring to the team, hell no... His basketball value per dollar is freaking high...
I was going to post those exact stats in the Nash thread but you beat me to it. But, i disagree with your conclusion. I think it is proven that you need to be dominant at something and above average at the other. This season we were 15th in offensive efficiency. If we make a trade it is unlikely that we will become a dominant offensive team. If we trade for a player who is a complete defensive liability we could lose our elite defense (remember our defense was already more suspect this season than in the past).
whoever thinks we should get rid of battier is crazy for numerous reasons. 1. he is a straight boss a defense 2. he costs hardly anything 3. he hits them thrice balls in the corner 4. he can come of the bench if we make a different move 5. hes a leader and he went to duke
I'd only move him at this point as part of a package to land a star player. I agree with DD, I'd keep him and either not re sign Artest or move him in a sign and trade which I think makes more sense.
we don't trade battier. bad idea. the coaches know it, the gm knows it, the owner knows it, just some fans don't know how important he is to the team and how much of a winner he's been and is.
