1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

It's Time to Break Up Big Medicine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Invisible Fan, Dec 12, 2024.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,483
    Likes Received:
    27,455
    Stoller writes well in describing how we got here. Companies like UHG are not just a pure "health insurer" anymore, just like Alphabet isn't just a search engine.

    It's a chunky article, so put the page in reader mode to get your phone to read it aloud or something.

    https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/its-time-to-break-up-big-medicine

    UnitedHealth Group is not an insurer, it's a platform. And it's in the crosshairs as Elizabeth Warren and Josh Hawley propose breaking it apart, severing its pharmacy arm from the rest of the business

    The saga of the UnitedHealth Care CEO assassination has, as could be expected, now turned into a discussion of our health care system. Elizabeth Warren, for instance, is making the obvious point that people hate the health care system.

    Then, productively, she proposed, along with Republican Senator Josh Hawley, legislation to split apart some of these monster companies from their pharmacy subsidiaries, thus reducing conflicts of interest in health care. While this legislation was in the works long before the killing, it didn’t stop Wall Street investors from saying that any discussion of health care reform was a de facto endorsement of murder.
     
  2. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    11,298
    Likes Received:
    7,474
    add "some" in front of Wall Street investors.

    it is analogous to some false narratives / intellectual dishonesty about Fed's monetary policies / fine-turning.

    while Powell's Fed was raising the discount rate to counter inflation pressures--in the process lowering
    it from ~9% to the 3% range---false narratives that it was wrecking its balance sheet were being spinned.​
     
    #2 adoo, Dec 13, 2024
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2024
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,483
    Likes Received:
    27,455
    Lol...We have living proof our healthcare system ain't working.
     
    ROCKSS and Space Ghost like this.
  4. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    17,423
    Likes Received:
    8,186
    Socialize pre-existing conditions, including child birth.

    Let the markets do the rest. It isn't THAT hard (for idiots who supported the ACA)
     
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    54,895
    Likes Received:
    42,529
    Liberals always thought of the ACA as THE solution. Leftists always knew it was a finger cut band aid applied to a severed femoral artery.
     
  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,483
    Likes Received:
    27,455
    Nah Libs wanted Single Payer and was suckered by Obama and Pelosi to swallow the "most realistic deal."

    To make it go down smoother, there were fluffy op/eds from left leaning think tanks about experimental panels that would make it "more efficient" or some BS that never panned out or was made feasible.

    Typical high fallutin Ideas Factory Drivel to Nowhere that populates a lot of left ideas right now...

    No one was really happy with Obamacare, and now we have these god awful monopolies that do less than what were promised in its wake.
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  7. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,118
    Likes Received:
    13,835
    All you are doing is telling folks you don’t understand how Congress works….. There was never a congressional majority for any form of universal healthcare.

    Guess which party kneecapped ACA and didn’t fund the high risk pools? Guess which party constantly weakened ACA? GOP does the same thing with public education…. Underfund and intentionally make it worse so they can say “see we told you”.

    Take a look around…. It hasn’t just been healthcare companies becoming larger and stronger.
     
    adoo likes this.
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    54,895
    Likes Received:
    42,529
    ACA was a failure from the start because it still depends on the existence of private insurance networks which I haven't heard an explanation of why they should exist? Why does the middle man pooling money together need a profit motive? What innovations are private insurers providing to society because they are profit motivated? Why can't a team of actuary scientists and medical scientists on government 200k a year salaries run this collective pool of money?
     
  9. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,118
    Likes Received:
    13,835
    No they didn’t… ACA was always just a starting point.
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,118
    Likes Received:
    13,835
    Yawn.

    That’s an entirely separate issue. There has never been a congressional majority to enact universal healthcare.
     
  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    54,895
    Likes Received:
    42,529
    A starting point to what? Until the most prominent Democrat politicians leading the DNC aren't getting donations and support from private insurers, any rhetoric about a eventual single payer system is just that... rhetoric.

    Today, ask Democrat leaders, and they will tell you fully restoring ACA is the ultimate solution, not single payer. The Democrat party has moved to the right on this over the past 8 years. It's now shifted to the idealized version of the ACA as being the ultimate solution,
     
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    54,895
    Likes Received:
    42,529
    Exactly. The ACA hinges on a private insurance industry existing. Hence a band aid on a severed artery.
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,483
    Likes Received:
    27,455
    Obvy Dem leaders don't know how Congress works!

    Anyhow, the system is broke and broken. It's unfortunate it took an assassination of a CEO excelling at what the current system has intended.

    Good luck to Warren and Hawley on passing a bill to curtail the biggest gaps.
     
  14. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,118
    Likes Received:
    13,835
    Obviously any sort of healthcare reform?

    You do understand a piece of ACA (which was rules and regulations) was increasing PUBLIC healthcare such as CHIP and Medicaid for low income and working class?
     
  15. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,118
    Likes Received:
    13,835
    When you have to lie, misinform or use hyperbole.... it just makes your argument weaker.
     
  16. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,483
    Likes Received:
    27,455
    I'm just killing time with members pretending to talk about an article they didn't bother to read.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  17. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,407
    Likes Received:
    6,824
    The vertical integration of these companies is definitely a problem. It is a very monopolistic industry in general, and the integration has made that worse. People have few options for health insurance due to employer coverage and the way the exchange works. Then you take what is available and they control the pharmacies and often the doctors. It is just gross.
     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  18. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,118
    Likes Received:
    13,835
    What did your response of "suckered by Obama and Pelosi to swallow the "most realistic deal." have to do with the article?

    Matt Stoller doesn't seem to understand "healthcare rationing" is a part of all healthcare, even the vaunted Universal Health. Systems wouldn't function too well if every person with hyperlipidemia was given the best cholesterol medications.

    Matt Stoller's article about how ACA (he prefers the term Obamacare) Created Big Medicine:

    Like bro.... that's how universal healthcare works with the main difference being private vs public. You want big network(s) with a bunch of contracted providers.

    What US healthcare needs is a public backbone (just expand Medicare) with private supplemental.
     
  19. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,118
    Likes Received:
    13,835
    That's the feature/bug of capitalism.

    Public healthcare "works" because it is very monopolistic, the difference is the public is funding it instead of having a profit motive. Universal healthcare has to consider sustainability so it employs a lot of the same principles (provider networks, formularies, etc).
     
  20. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    11,298
    Likes Received:
    7,474
    Elon Musk took to X to question why Americans aren't “getting their money's worth” despite the United States leading the world in health care administrative costs,



    Mark Cuban gave Musk a crash course on how their decisions directly impact health care costs and quality in the U.S.




    Let’s start with the pharmacy side. I haven’t seen your contracts, but I already know that if you have a contract with a big PBM you:
    1. Don’t control your claims data
    2. Don’t control your formulary
    3. Have to pay more for “Specialty Drugs” that have nothing special about them
    4. Get rebates that are paid for by your sickest and oldest employees and result in higher deductibles and co-pays that impact the wellness of your workers and their families.
    5. Cause independent pharmacies to be reimbursed for less than their costs for brand drug scripts for your employees and families. Causing them to go out of business
    6. Can’t talk to manufacturers to put together wellness programs for things like GLP1s
    7. Signed a PBM contract with an NDA which prevents you from publicly discussing your PBM contract , resulting in an opaque, inefficient market, which leads to higher prices and lower quality of care for the entire country All of this allows the big PBMs to continue to distort the pharmacy market for literally EVERYONE

    If DOGE extends its mandate to educating CEOs, about how to Direct Contract with providers and how to work with Pass Through PBMs, then you can change the balance of power in healthcare and change how healthcare in this country works​
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now