It's the Mobes and Franchise Show #5

Another point, kayman, is that if you think about it, you're sort of making my argument for me..

I was saying that contrary to Jordan/Pippen and Olajuwon, the Rockets shouldn't be a two-man show because Steve and Cuttino are surrounded by exceptional young players who aren't being given the opportunity to fulfill their talents, and benefit the team...and you point out that there are other young players who are fulfilling their talent more...and what do they have in common? Oh, yeah, right...they are hetting the pt and the shots that our young bit players in the S&C Show aren't...I'm glad we agree...

 

First off I love your dedication and I am sure it took you some time to mull over all of those numbers.

I think the most telling stat is the touches to possession ratio. You said it was 2.2 We would be better off with 2.8-3.2 This is around what I would think the NETS, MAVS etc..would have if the stat guru were to check them out.

Last year Rudy was taken some heat on the radio about all of the ISOS that were being called and he brought up similar stats. He talked about how successful the ISOS were based on % of times they scored per times that they didn't. It was in the mid 50% range. I think Rudy is getting caught up in the numbers. Maybe he needs to understand that once you run ISOS so much the rest of the teams is in no kind of rhythm to run anything other than ISOS. CATO scores over a 50% clip but that doesn't mean we want him to shoot twenty times per game. I can't complain about the PG scoring 30 when he is shooting and scoring at 58%. You have to keep letting him shoot no matter what position he plays on the court.

With SF & CM shooting high percentages I don't see how we can argue that they aren't passing enough. It only becomes a problem when they don't shoot that well or the turnovers are high.

Personally I think assist are a little over rated. The most important stats in determining winning and losing is,
TO's
Off/Rebs
FG%
FT's

Normally if you win two of these four you will win the game. The bottom line is to out score your opponent. Having more possessions than your opponents always is a good thing. You do that by not turning over the ball and getting on the glass. These two stats are more important than how many assist the team has.

On a positive note the Rockets are getting better with every game. I really think that MoT will only add to this improvement...of course with a few steps backwards due to his rustiness.

He will have to shoot the resin off of that shooting hand.

 

That was a great report Codell. I think it is worthy of being posted as a clutchcity write-up, and even if you only did it once every 2-3 games, I would love to see it. The progression throughout the season would be interesting as well.

 

i cannot believe you just said that. absolutely stunned.


i think the lakers of the last 3-4 years, spurs of the *year, and rockets of 94 & 95 would DEFINITELY disagree with you. and those are just the championship teams. there are other "contenders" that have great frontcourts...


oh and before you point it out...i know kobe is not a "mediocre backcourt". however, the lakers are still a contender without kobe and with shaq. they are NOT a contender with kobe and without shaq, though...


NBA = BIG MAN'S GAME. PERIOD.

 

Look at the stats guys.....Steve and Cat are shooting very well and doing a lot. Jeff hit it when he said that Steve was passing the ball a lot, but wide open layups and Js were just blown. Griffin's overall %, Cato's layup v dunk fest and others are causing his assist numbers to be skewed through 5 games. I counted no less than 10 passes to high % shots that were missed, fumbled or blocked (an unforced block--easy to swat).

Our overall shooting % without Steve and Cat is dismal...It is 31%..that is terrible...no one else is scoring at this point because they are clanking!!!!

 

Amen, Yetti. Team play. SF scoring 20+ or 30+ is only good when the teams are scoring at the same time. If SF and/or CAT contributing 60% or more in offense continues consistently, I don't think Rox will win the games that they should.

 

Thanks for the work codell, that's pretty cool.

Almost too valuable for you to waste in a thread that started as a gun-jumping anti-steve-cat rant.

I personally think Mobley had a pretty decent game on Saturday, much better than Seattle.

What those numbers don't show is the number of times he bailed the rox out by sticking a three as the shot clock was winding down, or the times he sliced right through the middle of GSW's D, despite everybody knowing he was coming, for a basket or foul.

 

I felt it was worth of starting a new thread too. However, I have a bet going on with another member and Im not allowed to start new threads.

The numbers were more for information purposes. I wasnt really calculating them to show how bad or good a particular player is. Im going to try and keep these stats for the rest of the games.

The players stats I was really amazed by was Thomas. I cant imagine him having better stats.

Im going to track a Mavs or Kings game to see how many AOs they have in a full game. Ive heard some comparisons between our offense and the Mavs offense.

 

you got to start cheating and have people start them for you....I'm sure hp would never catch on.....

 

Codell,

That is one of the most informative posts I have ever read.....

Post of the year so far.

DaDakota

 

Im a man of honor. No cheating.

 

As Charlie Chan would say, "Very Interesting!" But what would Mark Twain say? Excellent post, nevertheless.

 

Wow, codell. Fascinating to mull over. You deserve major kudos. I hope you and/or others who have the time, patience, and goodwill can do it again at times. That's a lot of work!

Kenny had a tremendous game...

 

"The Itchy and Scratchy show!" - "The Mobley and Francis show!"

Maybe the Simpsons can make a cartoon of Mobley and Francis lighting up everyone in the NBA!?!?

 

This to me is really the key. My first reaction to codell's excellent post was the subjectivity involved in counting assist opportunities. The AO numbers can be overstated -- how many of those passes really put the recipient in a position to score? How many of those passes were in a situation where Steve and Cat dribbled themselves into a hole, and made a pass to bail themselves out -- but the recipient gets the ball in an uncomfortable position, or without much time on the clock.

I guess Steve and Cat deserve less heat if a good deal of these AOs really were blown layups. But I still think that the other guys deserve some slack. It's hard for them to be focused and ready to convert a pass, since Steve and Cat have historically set the expectation that they're not going to give up the ball, and their teammates have been conditioned into watching them dribble. And don't give me any bullsh*t about, "well, they're professionals, they should always be ready."

Regardless of some blown shots in the short term, Steve and Cat have to continue to distribute the ball, do it more often and more consistently, and just show confidence in their teammates -- who also have quite a bit of talent. Then we'll start seeing higher AO conversion rates (aka assists).

 

Yeah, that would be sweet because as they're lighting everybody up, while excluding all the other bums on the team, we make our way to a .500 record at best! But hey, that's only the fault of the other guys on the team, because they all suck! If only those losers came to play every night! Screw the Rockets -- go Stevie and Cat!!!

"It's so funny because it's true!" -- Homer J. Simpson

 

I'm glad you bumped this up, hamachi. I wish one of the "Crew" would take his original post and the responses out of this and start a thread with it. Codell can't because of a bet. (at least he's honorable!)

I would love to see a similar breakdown of tonight's game. (hint, hint!)

 

Hamachi,

Just to clarify, i felt the manner in which I defined an AO was actually very objective. Simply put, i defined it as assists + assists that would have been credited if it werent for the player receiving the pass a) Missing the shot b) Having his shot blocked or c) Having the ball stolen when going up for the shot. I tried to leave as much subjectivety out of my stats as possible. Obviously, if i had to discount AOs because of the passing player putting the shooter in a bad position to score or what not (good example was in the 2nd half, Francis through Cato an alley oop that was a little off and Cato couldnt finish it) then the overall AOs would have been lower. In the same way you dont discredit an assist because the player receiving the pass made the shot despiting being put into a bad shootin position by the player, I didnt want to discredit AOs either. As a whole, if things were perfect (shots not missed, blocked or stolen), the most assists Steve would have had out of the game was 9 (just using him as an example ...not Steve hating here). In reality, like you said, because of passes being received in non-optimal positions, then the arguement could be made that Steve's AOs may have been closer to 7 or 8.

My main reason for posting these stats were to dispute the myth posted by some member that Steve would have over 10 assists regularly if it werent for all the missed shots, etc. and also to show how our offense breakdowns with regards to one on one play versus passing and through that, to track our tendencies to try and establish a pattern.

 

Thanks for the clarification codell -- probably should have read your initial post more carefully. You're AO definition is probably as objective as is reasonably possible.