It's okay to be the gay!

Here is the final conclusion of the study you presented.

"From the data reviewed in this report, it seems reasonable to conclude that male homosexuality, or, at least, some 'types' of male homosexuality, are under some degree of genetic control, although various problems with this data prevent more precise conclusions from being drawn. Little can be said of the origins of female homosexuality"

The conclusions of the people conducting the study are not nearly as certain as you that Homosexuality is genetic.

Oh, I read somewhere that 73% of statistics were made up on the spot so you might want to provide some sources for your statistics. Also, if your statistics were accurate and genetics does determine homosexuality then why are 50% of identical twins with homosexual brothers NOT gay?

 

no doubt. common sense should really rule here.

 

Does that mean I have a republican gene?

 

People choose to be Jazz fans????

 

I know I can be wrong, and might be.

I have experience with a couple of gay men who left the homosexual life for a heterosexual life, and I admit that has influenced me.

There are other problems with a genetic view but I really don't think this is something to argue over. The many homosexuals I have met with over the years are some very nice people.

As a minister I think I should be careful with this. I don't put much emphasis on homosexuality because I deal more with people that have problems in other areas. However, at this time there are not any homosexuals in our church. At other churches I served and loved several.

I think I have seen some very significant factors with this behavior in children and also teens.

It is hard to see it as a choice if you take a simplistic view of the emotional, pschological and physical factors that affect a person's desires for intimacy, acceptance, love and security.

If I am wrong, I know that I have not taken up a crusade to purge the land.

I have led a few homosexuals to become Christians and change lifestyles. They seem fine today as heterosexuals. That obviously has no bearing on genetics influence of which I do not have expertise.

If genetics is the cause of sexual orientation then it is. Simple.

 

mc mark, also I might add I see nothing wrong with your view, because I am sure there are good reasons you believe as you do; as I have my reasons also.

 

Just to clarify something, in our church there are some individuals who have experimented with homosexuality, but they did not consider themselves gay so I left that out. One couple in particular lived in a threesome for some time before they came to my wife and I for help.

 

rhester, i see where you are coming from, but just because a person is able to "renounce" his homosexuality and "become" heterosexual to me doesn't prove a thing. there have been many closeted homosexuals in the world who have raised a family and lived a heterosexual lifestyle. that doesn't prove a thing to me other than it's someone who's been told they're a sinner because of who they love and they want to please society/their god.

 

There was no telling someone they are a sinner.

I worked with a ministry that helped people on Montrose in Houston. Street prostitutes, crack addicts, gays, straights etc

I never had someone renounce their homosexuality, there were other complex factors involved as I stated.

Do not think too much of what I posted, I have very limited experience with this.

I personally believe sexual acts between men is wrong.

But so is lying, pirating software and cheating on your income tax return.

 

oh, I can.. in fact, I think that a lot of people (especially at the high school level) "choose" gheyness as a result of them already being ridiculed etc and just to be "unique" and spark a negative reaction from people, thus obtaining the ultimately pleasing "we're being treated unfairly, waaaaahhh" attitude..

psychological, YES, genetic? absolutely NOT..

on a slightly humorous side note, I do have a theory that all females are to an extent attracted to each other, and it's a lot more acceptable for them be lesbians or actually bi .. can anyone confirm my theory or agree on it?

 

That is the absolute dumbest theory of homosexuality I have ever seen.

 

My guess is you have never been friends with a gay person. I have some gay friends, but I saw how they struggeled when they came out of the closet. It was terrible for them because of how the reaction would be of their friends/family. Once you witnessed something like this you cannot claim anymore that it is a choise.

It is because of people like you and odsson that those people have to go through that.

 

I don't think it's a theory I think it is a fact and it works with men too. They are not all SEXUALLY attracted to each other but they are definitely attracted to each other by similar thinking and likes/dislikes etc. The reason it is so hard to find a proper mate is because it is hard to find a person of the opposite sex that has enough in common to be lifetime friends with AND be able to maintain that friendship after you complicate it with sexual intimacy.

 

First three minutes of this (not work appropriate):

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If it doesn't work for Pastor Haggard, it doesn't work.

 

dude don't take my statement seriously, it was an over simplified absurd statement aimed solely at soliciting LOLs that's all

but jokes aside, I still believe that the scientific explanation for homosexuality is a psychological one, and it is definitely not something you are "born with".. I don't think it's acceptable, but I really don't care if a person indeed chooses to be gay.. in fact, I don't care if they get married, I don't even think legal heterosexual marriage is necessary: why not just do it at a church or mosque or whatever, and spare the government the headache of contracts etc.. but the bottom line is clear: I don't think it's appropriate, but I don't give a crap if someone is gay..

oh and by the way, I did have this one gay friend in high school.. he was a really cool guy, very smart and well spoken..

 

Please cite the post #'s, including relevant quotes, where I say that homosexuality is genetic or that genetics determine homosexuality.

 

Of course I disagreed with the pope. He was wrong. Condoms have been proven to be effective at reducing the chance of transmitting HIV/AIDS through sexual contact. Therefore, abstinence is NOT the only way.

 

You know, in addition to heterosexuals and homosexuals, there are also bisexuals. These are people who could be happy being with either men or women.

 

Rhester;

Sorry I'm not quoting you in my response but there are a too many comments to get back to you and I wanted to direct these somewhat generally.

I think you are speaking of choice in terms of a decision to make a conscious action so yes in terms of engaging in homosexual sex that is a choice but then so is engaging in heterosexual sex yet we don't hear arguments that heterosexuality is a choice.

When it comes to sexuality we are talking about a variety of things but foremost in that is what is someone's inclination towards who they are attracted too. Is it a choice that you and I find women attractive? If the matter of sexuality is reduced to choice then we should be able to decide for whatever reasons to find men attractive. Even not going as far as gender I presume that you like me find women with certain traits to be very attractive but if sexual attractiveness is choice can you just decide to find someone who doesn't have those traits to be attractive? For example I'm Asian and I like short women with black hair and dark eyes yet I live somewhere with only Scandanavians so can I just choose to find tall blond blue eyed women attractive?

As humans we certainly have a great degree of control over our urges and can with great effort even overcome our biological wiring. We can do things like fast, we can completely abstain from sex both of which go against the most fundamental biological imperatives to maintain the organism and to procreate but those are extraordinary achievements of will. To me it seems that to deny homosexuality that requires a similar achievement of will. Consider Ted Haggard he still engaged in homosexual acts with the full knowledge that would destroy his social standing and the ministry he had labored to build. While yes he chose to have homosexual sex I have a hard time believing what drove him to do so had anything to do with choice.

The problem with the argument that homosexuals should refrain from having sex with the same gender though is that we are asking them to engage in a great act of will for no greater benefit than to abide by a social norm. But at what cost is it for them to abide by that norm and at what cost is it to society to punish people for not abiding by that norm?

Many people compare homosexuality to pedophilia, bestiality and other sorts of sexual behaviors but the key difference between those and homosexuality is consent. An animal, a corpse or a child cannot consent that is rape but an adult male or female can offer consent. We trust adults with all sorts of decisions such as driving and voting yet when it comes to deciding who you love and who you want to have sex with we say that society gets to decide. If we are a free society I think we should accept that two consenting adults even of the same gender might very well want to have sex and even love each other.

If we truly accept Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness as inalienable rights I don't think we can accept anything less.