I think you are dead on ACL1. Houston is a cosmopolitain city with a whole lot of movement. Heck, look at how many people on this board lived in Houston and now are other places -- Dallas, Austin, SA, etc. Those are fans that don't really count in the TV contracts and attendance. Then look at how many people in Houston are from other places, but moved here. I'm sure lots of others here have -- I moved here in 93. I also think you are dead-on BobFinn. Everyone has a bad excuse why they don't go to the games, or pay attention, or even care. I think this will pick up though, and as we start making it to the playoffs and so on, we'll be in a better state for getting high attendance and better team awareness.
I don't think that that counts...I can't speak for other cities, but Toronto basically sells out every game, and every single game is televised...Hell, the Raptors have their own channel that rebroadcasts all the games...
Originally posted by Jeff Down economy Watching your hometown town team to play would probably lift your sprits a bit in such groomy situation Really bad team the past couple of seasons They are 6-3 right now. Players are healthy, Ming is exiciting. Past dont count! A new cast of players added over the past few seasons Again, they are all decent, right. Some of the highest ticket prices in the league How much is tix? Clipper's game is like $50 for so so seating. And they are all sold out. Rox is doing better than Clip at least. Up until this season, absolutely no marketing or fan interaction We dont have those bill borads in LA. People still go see Clippers and Lakers. There is not much other ads either for both team in LA. A brand new football team in town sucking up ticket sales Teaxan? Comeon, Rox gotta be more exciting than the sorry losing bottom football team. The promise of a brand new arena and new uniforms...but not until next season So you guys just wanna see the areana not the game.
For me, it's totally a price issue. I don't feel like I'm really into the game when I sit high up in the cheap seats, and I can't afford good seats down low. It's a fact that our ticket prices are among the top 5 in the league, mostly because Les wants the extra cash to make-up for not having as many luxury suites as other arenas (don't see how that's our fault though). But the funny thing is that the high prices really don't make-up the short-fall because people aren't willing to pay them, aren't willing to attend at those rates. And it's even worse because those empty seats mean no food or beer sales. Also, it hurts the team by creating a dead environment. To be honest, I think the Rockets really have their heads up their ends. For example, these mini-plans: What's the benefit to buying one? It would be great if you got a bulk discount, like 20%. Or maybe some other incentive, like an autographed ball or food coupons. But otherwise, what's the point?
Hey...don't feel bad... I think overall the NBA is not doing well. MSG and the KNICKS don't sell out their games anymore. The NJ Nets who won the Eastern Conference last year can't sell out the arena either and they give out tickets for $10 on game day.
Negative does NOT equal bandwagon. You're saying that a die-hard fan has no right to complain if they are doing bad. Not, true. Fair-weather, DOES equal bandwagon. I feel that the "fans" that are fair-weather have no right to complain since they don't support the team anyways.
I never liked that whole "Houston has the worst fans" crapola. That is an overly simplistic explanation. As with most problems, getting fans to games is extremely complex. It isn't as simple as just saying, "Our fans suck." If our fans really sucked that much, ClutchCity.net wouldn't exist, so give that lame-ass excuse a rest. So does feeding your family or putting gas in your car. You overestimate the amount of disposable income people actually have in an economy that has seen the downfall of two of the biggest employers in the city in the past year. Yes, the past DOES count. Believe it or not, some people are not normally basketball fans. To get PEOPLE in the seats, they have to think there is a reason to be there. I have a good friend who is a big sports fan. He likes basketball quite a lot but outside of Francis and Yao, I doubt he could name 3 other players on the team. He's not from here (like the majority of Houstonians) originally and, as the team was losing, his only line to the team was me talking about them. As a result, he doesn't know any of the players and probably won't be interested until they are actually in the playoffs again. Given that so many Houstonians aren't actually FROM Houston, it makes sense that many of them hold no specific allegience to the Rockets and the team has to earn their loyalty. The last report I saw last year put us third in highest ticket prices behind only the Knicks and Bulls. It goes deeper than billboards. The team did much LESS for fans than you can imagine. They ASSUMED (incorrectly) that fans would always support the team. They didn't realize what a horrid effect losing would have on ticket sales. That is why they hired Tim and why they are pushing their marketing so hard. It will pay off. A survey done by Richard Murray (from UH) and Bob Stein (from Rice) found that basketball was second (by a good distance) to football in Texas. In fact, the Rockets were even with the Astros in terms of popularity even though basketball is more popular than baseball as a sport. No, but look at what happened to the Astros and Minute Maid park. Over 3 million fans went to games two years straight. They had never even come close to that mark previously. Now, that won't keep happening if they don't win, but it is a start.
As an earlier poster pointed out, East Texas has no access to games on T.V. Other than the one on ESPN, there hasn't been one game on in Beaumont, and we're only an hour away. How can you expect to market a product with absolutely NO EXPOSURE? I am a fanatic about the Rockets, but how do they expect average fans to maintain interest in the current environment?
Off topic, but....I didn't think I would have any interest in this thread, yet I'm amazed by the insightful, intelligent and articulate posts. My compliments to all.
Well said... It's a cultural/historical problem of true "ownership" and "nostalgia" that is lacking. The Rockets/Comets are the only teams that have built a "history." The Colt .45s/Astros and Oilers/Texans (football history) have yet to build a history you can be proud of. A history of winners, not losers. Remember, history does not "remember" 2nd place.
No, negative != bandwagon. You can look at these as two different categories, or even perhaps one in the same. Fair-weather fans are often negative. But Negative fans are not necessarily bandwagoners. I never said that die-hard fans have no right to complain. NO WHERE IN MY POST DOES IT SAY THAT. But I do think part of Houston's problem with fan support is that many of the fans are overly negative. Certainly criticism is fine, and not a bad thing, but damn can the fans be harsh. The Rockets could go out and hit an amazing 50 of 55 baskets and win over someone in a landslide, but there'd be at least 3 threads here about the five shots we missed and how we'll never go anywhere. The vocal, overly negative fans then rub off on the borderline fans and cause them to be down on the team as well. Kindof like this last election. Negative campaigning and what's the result . . . EXTREMELY low turnout. Oh, and Furious Jam, you raise another good point -- if I buy a package, how come it costs the same as buying the tickets individually? Season tickets for me at least are the same as me going and buying tickets at the box office. Same price . . . why not just wait. Oh, I get a media guide? Bah, I can pick those up easily after the season's over. I've got a whole collection of old media guides. Oh, I get priority seating in the new arena? More than likely I either won't live in Houston next year, or I won't get season tickets because the rush-hour drive downtown from where I work is awful. And I also get first dibs on playoff tickets? Eh, I doubt I'd have too much difficulty getting playoff tix either. And it's not a given we're going to the playoffs at all anyways. Personally, I'd just like a discount on the tickets if I buy a package deal. I don't really care for all the extras that get thrown in, I'd rather just get a better financial deal in buying season tickets.
Something to consider: Over half of the metropolitan area generally known as 'Houston' is located now almost 15 miles to the west of the city, all heading toward Katy. The traffic on the one freeway (the Katy Fwy) is among the worst in the entire NATION. If a person works a full-time job, gets off work at 5, fights traffic for an hour to get home (since Houston is the most sprawled major city in the country), get's home by 6 at the earliest, has to gather the family up, put them in the car RIGHT THEN, (no dinner, homework may or may not be done, etc etc) jump right back into the traffic for another hour and a half (to fight the other worst traffic in the city, '59 inside the loop'), get to the arena, get in, sit down, go pay 7 dollars a piece for crappy hamburgers for everyone, 4.50 a piece for sodas for everyone, etc etc), try to watch the game from behind the backboard, etc etc, AND have to listen to (and subject your children to) the brain-dead profanity-screaming redneck drunk A-HOLES who are sitting everywhere, stay there for 3+ hours, watch a bunch of tattoed hip-hop primadonnas jump around, maybe see a win, then bundle everyone back into the car, fight traffic AGAIN for another hour and a half, and finally get home around midnight (on a school night).. and then hear the players complain about the 'bad fans' in Houston?? Been there, done that. And no thanks. Not worth it. It is so much better to watch the games on TV it's not even funny. Maybe the new arena will be slightly more convenient, but Houston is a 'family town', and will never draw big crowds in this city during the week until the team starts winning consistently enough to get the young, or single, or kidless people to get interested again. These multi-millionaire athletes who complain about the fans ought to just do their jobs (for which they are so unbelievably overpaid) and stop worrying about how many people are in the seats. They start playing up to their potential, the seats will fill. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I bought half season tickets this year, and last year I went to about 18 games. Before that I'd never been to more than 10 games a season (either I lived in another state, or I was in high school with no car). Last year I knew they were bad, but I had fun going to the game and trying to make as much noise as I could. I don't mind the small crowds sometimes, because I can move to the good seats, and I can yell loud enough for most of the stadium to hear me, but for the team this is bad. I hope it turns around quickly. I'm sure a win over the Mavericks would be a big step in the right direction. B
That's ok to Nitpick... As long as they come to the games or support the team in some way. But, that's different than the "fans" that complain that the Rockets don't do this or do that, and because of that, don't show up to the games or support them by other ways (jerseys, caps, posters, etc...). Essentially what they are saying is, "Put a winner on the court or I'm not going to the game. I'll be back to show my *support* when you are winning." Fair-weather/bandwagon. See?
Yep...this is true. Regardless of the reasons that Jeff gave earlier, they will show up to the game if we were able to win, say, 58-60 games. Prices, bad-unis, old arena, are besides the point.
I drove my family to Campaq Center from Dallas for the team open practice. It was a test drive to see how I can attend the games. Here are some impressions: 1. Parking sux big; 2. Ticket pricing not favorable for a family of 4; 3. Atmosphere as a sports venue was cold. For example, we bought tomorrow's game at Dallas. It's was a family pack of 4 at $100. The single seat costs $39, similar to $46 ticket at Compaq Center. The pack also includes a hot dog and a Dr. Pepper for each person. At Compaq Center, a hot dog costs $5 each, a bottled water costs $3, etc. So for a family of 4 at Compaq Center, It would cost about $200 for a game plus parking alone. I think I am willing to drive to Houston more often if a similar family pack of 4 is available. As other mentioned, Enron/Worldcom/Compaq merger/overall economy are all important factors. Entertainment value of the team may also be a big factor. Back to Hakeem's prime years, Rox was realy fun to watch.
But see my argument is that the overly negative fans tend to hurt Rockets turnout and buzz. That negativity rubs off on those fans who are borderline, and makes them less likely to care. PLUS, what kind of support is it to go the game and do nothing but complain. And what you call nitpicking, I call negativity. Nitpicking is "Yao Ming could position himself better for Rebounds", which is certainly true but will come with time. But to have people calling into talk shows in Houston and wanting Rudy fired is just absurd, but yet these people say they are fans. Come on now. And this kind of crap is on the radio every day!! Not to mention all the calls saying "Yao Ming Sucks, Steve Francis is overrated, Cuttino Mobley is a scrub who should be traded, and Eddie Griffin will never amount to anything". I mean come on, if you're a fan, you have to be optimistic about things, you have to have that FAN in you, and not be a mouthpiece for negative comments and undue criticism. BTW, I LOVE the parking situation for the Rockets -- it's better than the Spurs and Astros. Free parking, easy to get in and out of, covered, plenty of parking that's extremely close to the stadium.
Those are good points. Atmosphere is big factor! Make it fun regardless. That would take us though the lean years. I mean, if the Rockets had a bad record but had an arena that had a great atmosphere (decent price) would help attract the bandwagon fans. At least from a business standpoint, that could be a big factor. It know that sounds crazy. But that seems to be the only way to attract fair-weather fans during the years the team is not doing so well. But, in the end. Winning attracts the banwagons the best.
I don't understand the concept of anyone being a 'fair weather fan'. I understand fair weather friend, but I don't see why any Houstonian should support a mediocre product. In what other consumer situation would one be expected to shell out considerable bucks for a sub-par product? Surely, we do it unknowingly at times (I suffered through Windows computers for years before I discovered the Mac), but we don't knowingly opt for mediocrity. Calling a Houstonian a fair-weather fan sounds like praise for their intelligence. My 2 cents.
