It's getting harder and harder to say Hakeem was better than Shaq

"Penny was one of the elite PG/SG's when he was playing with Shaq."

DOD- Wasn't Pip considered the 2nd best player in the league when he played with MJ (at least by some experts)?

Also Kobe has been a much different player the last 2 years in the playoffs. It has only been the last 2 years that he has truly became a complete player. Now I'm not sure if Penny played him last year or the year before, but I truly doubt if Penny would have any answers to the way Kobe was playing this year.

I agree part of it was injuries but Penny is not a franchise type player. He is a nice complimentary player but I would have still taken an aging Clyde over a young Penny anyday.

I'm just not a big Penny fan. Maybe he is better than what I give him credit for, but the hi-lite of his career may indeed be his Lil Penny commercials.

 

Barely speaks english? Yeah he makes up words to keep people on their toes and he does mumble but the guy is bright. "

-Now, this is funny. The man got a 680 on his SAT. He admitted this in his book. He's so dumb, he had to take the ACT just to get into college.

-In his book, he also talks about playing the Rockets in 95 and comments about how Otis Thorpe was old and past his prime, completely oblivious to the fact that OT had been traded for Drexler.

-A few years ago, when asked about if Shaq had visited the Parthenon in Greece, Shaq said "I don't remember the names of the clubs we went to"

-Then he claims that Mutombo is flopping after he delivers about 5-6 elbows directly to his FACE.

-Let's face it: Shaq is dumb as dirt. No 2 ways about it.

"Robinson a classy guy? He may be classy but he is a loser. Did you not see him rollover in this years playoffs? Did you not see him sit out an entire season so he could addDuncan (that could have been an order from the top) but a real player would have sacked up and played."

-I'll agree that Robinson is soft as Charmin Tissue but for Shaq to write a book and proclaim him as a "punkass" just shows what a classless, whiner he himself is. Hakeem totally spanked Robinson in 95 and I didn't see him writing any books to further rub salt in Robinson's wound. Shaq is weak.

"I see in Shaq the same thing others see in CB4, a sense of humor and someone not afraid of being politically correct. I think he's funny and would much rather hear one of his interviews than most other athletes"

-Barkley was a genuinely funny guy. Shaq is funny because he is so stupid. In any case, even if you feel Shaq is Mr. Charisma, who was more charismatic has nothing to do with who was a better player.

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Get Cato out of there...

 

"Robinson played Shaq well, but Shaq still was dominant, to say it was a total stand-still is completely wrong. They didn't have Phil Jackson as a coach either, instead they had inexperienced Kurt Rambis."

-Robinson neutralized him. He took advantage of Shaq being fat and out of shape by taking the ball to the hoop on him and denied him great position. And Kurt Rambis being head coach does nothing to justify why Shaq was played to a standstill by a 33 year old David Robinson. It's amazing how whenever Shaq is outplayed by a Center in the playoffs (Hakeem or DRob), there's always a series of excuses by Shaq apologists.

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Get Cato out of there...

 

"DOD- Wasn't Pip considered the 2nd best player in the league when he played with MJ (at least by some experts)?"


-LOL. Hell no Pip was not considered the 2nd best player in the league. He may not even have been a top 20 player in the NBA at any point in his career.

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Get Cato out of there...

 

Pip was always considered a very good player in his prime, but I don't think he ever approached what you're stating. But even then, so what? It still doesn't take away from the fact that Anfernee when healthy was one hell of a basketball player.

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"I had mine chewed off by a boss one time." -- Behad leaves us wondering if he gets hazard pay...

 

Again Cato=Bum, it was not a standstill. The difference in the 99 series was DUNCAN, the immaturity of Kobe and Shaq, the lack of good role players and coaches on the Lakers, and DUNCAN. But Shaq was still dominant.

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"I look kind of dumpy. Look at my butt. And what kind of shoes do they have me wearing? At least they got the chinstrap beard right."
-Kevin Garnett on the KG bobblehead dolls during KG bobblehead doll night at the Target Center

[This message has been edited by LiLStevie3 (edited June 18, 2001).]

 

Does anybody know a website where I can get player stats from the 99 playoff series between the Spurs and Lakers?

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"I look kind of dumpy. Look at my butt. And what kind of shoes do they have me wearing? At least they got the chinstrap beard right."
-Kevin Garnett on the KG bobblehead dolls during KG bobblehead doll night at the Target Center

 

LilStevie,

I found the old box scores of that series.

Here's Shaq's #'s:

Game 1: 6-19 FG's 9-14 FT's 21 pts, 15 reb
Game 2: 7-11 FG's 2-10 FT's 16 pts, 8 reb
Game 3: 8-14 FG's 6-14 FT's 22 pts, 15 reb
Game 4: 12-23 FG's 12-23 FT's, 36 pts, 14 r

For the series, he averaged 23.5 ppg, 13 rpg, but shot only 48% from the FT line, and 48% from the Field, WAY below his season and career average. So, Robinson contained him and held him below his season's output by far. You'll also notice, Shaq was basically a non factor until Game 4, at which point the series was already long over. So I stand by my statement that a 33 year old Robinson effectively neutralized O'Neal.

Yes, Duncan was the main reason the Spurs won the series, but Robinson held his own against Shaq.

-This REALLY makes what Hakeem did to the MVP DRob in his prime look much more impressive.

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Get Cato out of there...

 

Ok, those numbers don't support that DRob played Shaq to a standstill.
They showed that DRob played Shaq effectively but not to a standstill

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"I look kind of dumpy. Look at my butt. And what kind of shoes do they have me wearing? At least they got the chinstrap beard right."
-Kevin Garnett on the KG bobblehead dolls during KG bobblehead doll night at the Target Center

[This message has been edited by LiLStevie3 (edited June 19, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by LiLStevie3 (edited June 19, 2001).]

 

I don't know I still think Shaq would dominate Robinson if Robinson was 33. People forget to mention that Shaq wasn't the same back then. He was slower and heavier, and was even moreso a dunker. NOw Shaq is lighter and quicker than the 98-99 season and has more post skills.

David Robinson is in good shape, I don't see Shaqs style of play as one that has to do with quickness, or anything. Shaq just powers it in on you, and dunks it, or does a little hook. Robinson is a strong guy, but he is not as strong as Shaq.

David vs Shaq has nothing to do with age in my opinion but power. Its not like shaq beats you off the dribble and stuff like that. Shaq just pounds you.

I think Shaq wasn't Shaq in the 98-99 season, Shaq was just a guy playing basketball. Who cared about eating whole boxes of pizza for lunch and making great movies like Kazaam or Steel. (lol) But Shaq the next year was more mature and on a mission.

I think if the Shaq of now played the RObinson of then. Shaq would crush him.



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Where did you get that from? Late last season around playoffs time, he was at 340 pounds. Early this season, he was even heavier, accused of overweight. If you watch those old games, you can see that he is obviously bigger (fatter) now.

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Shaq did not call RObinson a "punkass" out of arrogance or anything like that. Shaq just has never liked D-Rob. His anger to D-Rob started when Shaq played highschool ball in San Antonia.

Shaq went to meet Robinson. And Robinson either shoved him off, or just gave him an autograph and didn't really even talk to him. That hurt Shaq's feelings and thats why Shaq has never liked Robinsonl, not out of arrogance.

Do you shaq calling Hakeem a "punkass" or anything like that. No! Thats because shaq respects Hakeem, and Ewing, and the other great centers just not D-Rob.


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I didn't really get it from anywhere. in the 99-00 season Shaq just looked in better shape then he did in the 98-99 season. Then after he won the championship he just sat down and didn't work out during the summer and turned fat and out of shape again. But as the 00-01 season progressed he got in better shape, and more on a mission. Shaq swore to dominate like he had last year, after the all star break.

And Shaq is not fat I heard and it could be false that Shaq is around 10 percent body fat. I think Shaq is just naturally big sort of.

I don't think Shaq is fat just big. Fat people aren't as quick or fast as Shaq. Fat people can't jump as high as shaq and fat people can't play as long as Shaq without getting tired. Shaq is big!
Shaq doesn't even look fat his legs aren't fat, he doesn't have a double chin, his chest doesn't stick out really. Shaq is big.
Does Shaq look like Tractor Traylor.or seem as out of shape as Shawn Kemp? no.

ps- I highly doubt Shaq will come in at 295 as he claims he will next year.

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Cato=Bum-
If you're worried about ACT scores I'm afraid the NBA probably isn't a good league to be watching. No offense to any of the players but there are alot more "dummys" than geniuses. There are very few Grant Hills & Dikembe Mutombo's who have great IQs, and even fewer (Grant Hill) who are both very intelligent and well spoken.

Also as far as I know the ACT & SAT are fairly comprable tests. How could Shaq be bad at one of them and good at the other? I'm not saying he didn't get in with his ACT score but to insinuate he had to back door the system by getting into college with an ACT scre is misleading.

Also if you go back to articles (sorry I don't have any links) during MJs comeback after baseball many people felt Pip was the 2nd best player in the NBA.

And also I would be careful in calling someone stupid, but then at the same time reading his/her book. Maybe you are trying to learn a couple of things. He must have been just smart enough to either get you to buy the book, or at least smart enough to waste some of your higher intelligence in reading it

 

This is not personal, Corey78. I just wanted to point out this year, Shaq said Ewing is a big whiner and flopper, and he has lost all respects for him after playing with him, when he talked about how Hakeem never complained when playing with him..

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I don't think Shaq is fat either, but since I don't enjoy watching his style of play, I am not going to put a positive word like "strong" on him.

Sabonis laughed sarcastically when he was asked about playing against someone 315 pounds. He said something to the effect of "315 pounds my foot". Sabonis is listed as 290 pounds, so he probably has a good gauge on how heavy Shaq really is. Shaq is playing at about 340 pounds, many said. The general rule is that most players tend to gain some weight as they progress in age, due to weight training and well, age. After last summer, when people said Shaq was overweight, they meant he could be over 340 pounds.

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Just try it:

Hah-Keem iz beh-ter than Shack.



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Protrolls.com!

RITQAIOCLHTPFOTFWBPTD

 

"I'm not saying he didn't get in with his ACT score but to insinuate he had to back door the system by getting into college with an ACT scre is misleading."

-In his book, he says that the SAT score of his (680) was too low to get into Division I college (i think the minimum is a 700 you need) So he did have to backdoor the system by taking the ACT. I give him credit for at least admitting this in his book, because it is embarassing

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Get Cato out of there...

 

Oh God forbid Shaq "backdoor" the American collegiate system. Had he studied harder, I'm sure he could've made more than the one hundred bazillion dollars he's making now while some of us sit here talking about how stupid he is.

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"I had mine chewed off by a boss one time." -- Behad leaves us wondering if he gets hazard pay...

[This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited June 19, 2001).]

 

This is so simple to answer.

Hakeem is the better all around player if you want to analyze it correctly. Shaq has...what....4 or so good things he can do on offense? Hakeem had 2,374,483 on a bad night! Can Shaq go from one side of the floor to the other and block a shot into the third row? Don't think so. Can Shaq hit a damn free-throw with his balls hanging in the balance? Don't think so. How about this. If Shaq is so good, then why drop step around a player instead of bowling over him. I think the drop step is simple enough that even I use it on the play ground every ninth or tenth blue moon.

The people that say that Shaq is a better player than Hakeem are the same people that say that Magic was better than Oscar Robertson, that Karl Malone was better than Larry Bird, that Barry Bonds is better than Willie Mays and they will be the same people that one day say Kobe is better than Jordan.

Relax. It's like my friend says. People who truly know basketball and not mediaball know who the true great all-around center of the past 25 years is.

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Sleepless in the Bronx