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It is all about the PICK AND ROLL!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by theangrycanary, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. theangrycanary

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    I've been coming to this forum and reading comments for about a year.

    After last night's debacle, I am raging so hard that I finally made an account today. Because the problem with this team is so obvious.

    Today I see that a couple of people are arguing about Dwight Howard's effectiveness, and whether Asik fits with the team more.

    OK. Lets look at the facts.

    -Last night on TNT Shaq, Kenny, Charles, all said straight up that Dwight is not a natural or good post up player. He does better facing the basket, using his athleticism.

    -Dwight is an athletic freak. Not a size freak like post up stars, like Shaq. Dwight is actually undersized for a center.

    - Hakeem noted that Jeremy Lin and Dwight would be a great duo.

    - Jeremy Lin and Tyson Chandler were an incredible pick and roll duo. Jeremy Lin got about four assists a game during insanity from lobbing high passes to chandler or fields off of pick and rolls.

    - Jeremy Lin is at his best when playing pick and roll. The pick frees him up to slash at the basket, and if the defense adjusts to him, he can lob to the rolling big man or toss to an outside shooter

    - Last year Asik showed a great willingness to set good screens. And most of the highlights you find floating around on the net are of pick and rolls.

    - The rockets entire offense is built on running and gunning. Perfect for pick and roll. Something that a clumsy, slow, post up center absolutely kills.

    So, lets put this all together.

    Jeremy Lin is at his best playing pick and roll. In fact, the difference is so huge that Jeremy Lin is a great pg when playing pick and roll and only an average point guard when doing anything else. James Harden is at his best playing pick and roll. Dwight Howard is at his best playing pick and roll. And in addition, he is a small, sub par post up center.

    AND EVERYONE KNOWS THIS! EVERYONE!

    So would someone please tell me... why Dwight Howard refuses to play pick and roll? Why the coaching staff is letting this happen? Am I on CRAZY PILLS!?

    (RAGING!!!!)
     
  2. masc0635

    masc0635 Member

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    well, i guess Harden likes to play iso and hero ball
     
  3. WaitForIt

    WaitForIt Member

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    Dwight WANTS to post up. Jeremy Lin is the 4th option on the team. They are not going to run PRs between the 4th option on the team and the 1st/2nd when he doesn't even want to do it.
     
  4. DieHard Rocket

    DieHard Rocket Contributing Member

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    This is why we need Asik back, and why it's important that we get a solid backup C that can set screens and move if we trade him.

    I'm fine with Dwight getting touches in the post. I'm fine with Harden just iso-ing occasionally when we need a big shot. But when Dwight is sitting and/or in an effort to preserve Harden, we need to be running plenty of P&R with Lin/Parsons and Asik. It will balance the offense and also give us more potency behind just relying on Harden and DH.
     
  5. theangrycanary

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    Please don't make this about Lin.

    I don't care if they trade Lin.

    Even if Lin is gone, Dwight Howard needs to set screens for Harden and then run towards the fricking basket.

    Do you guys remember that Dwight Howard and Harden were supposed to pull double teams so that outside shooters had totally open looks? Its not happening. Dwight Howard is so bad in the post that teams more often then not just leave someone like Serge or Brignagni to deal with him.

    If Dwight Howard played pick and roll, this team would be fun to watch offensively again.

    As for defense... just terrible coaching. Can't blame any one guy for the poor defense because defense in the nba is more team oriented then offense.

    A superstar offensive nba player can get make a bucket on any defense when he has too. But a superstar defensive nba player can't stop a team by himself.

    Our players never seem to know when to switch off. And then, when they do, the other team exploits it, and you get situations where Jeremy lin ends up guarding Durant or something. Which is ridiculous.

    But... all of the frustration from rockets fans is that we know we have an ultra talented offense. And to watch it stagnate over and over again because no big men will set screens.

    EVERY GAME Jeremy Lin and Chandler Parsons spend half their energy fighting through screens. The Rockets don't make anyone fight through screens. Our ball handlers either run around like chickens with their heads cut off or have to do Isos.

    So at the end of games our guys are exhausted and the other teams have more energy.

    Just bad coaching. Its all so painfully obvious. The only reason people in the media aren't saying this, is that its like an honor code. You don't call out coaches.
     
  6. tkrieger

    tkrieger Member

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    I'll say it yet again..... You need bigs that can score off the midrange game in order to have an effective and reliable pick-and-roll game. Without this midrange threat, any attempt at a pick-and-roll play will always send the defenders collapsing to the rim to take the roll option away. Because the defenders don't fear the alternative plays, involving midrange shooting. They can focus solely on denying the roll to the hoop.

    The "layups and threes" strategy is the core problem with this offense... And as the OKC Thunder shown the other night, good defense can totally stifle this strategy. Maybe we finally have a big enough reason to scrap this gimmick once and for all.
     
  7. qiantom1999

    qiantom1999 Rookie

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    Agree mostly. Need a big man that can pop, and need the guards to shoot pull-ups, too.

    However, with the people they have, they are not utilizing the P&R fully either.

     
  8. chandlerbang21

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    Dwight needs to go back to playing bully ball . Screw the running hooks
     
  9. PositivityDome

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    They won't play PNR because it doesn't fit Morey's "Analytical System," that shots at the rim + 3 pointers are "the most efficient shots," in basketball. Everything the Rockets do is based on this philosophy, like it or not.

    A PnR offensive system usually revolves around the ballhandler driving to the hole/the big man driving to the hole, or the screensetter popping for a jumper (Long 2). Where's the 3's at? Not there in that system at the rate the Houston higher ups want. Where's the post ups at? Not there for Dwight. Where's the iso/dribble penetrations at? Not there for Harden.

    And that's why there will never be a PNR heavy offense here while Morey/Dwight/Harden are key players. That's not nessicarily a bad thing either, as being a PNR heavy team really hasn't worked out that well in the playoffs for most teams, barring a few examples. 90s Jazz/00s Nash + Amare + Suns.

    The Rockets definitely need a more structural offensive system (and defensive system...) than their "read and react offense," though. Which is hit or miss. And usually a HUGE miss against the better teams in the league.
     
  10. WNBA

    WNBA Member

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    P&R offense seems too complicated for Rockets. How about P&R defense?

    Jones and Howard did not even bother to defend P&R. It was so wrong that coaches have to take the blame.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. tkrieger

    tkrieger Member

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    At least some fans are now noticing the lack of screens set in this offense. It's the reason why this team gets so few open lanes or open shots.
     
  12. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    I will add P&R defense on our part too. We don't run them and other teams kill us with them.
     
  13. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Exactly
     
  14. omgTHEpotential

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    We have Howard for crying out loud. We should run PnR plays for him 80% of the time.
     
  15. chandlerbang21

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    Shaq said it best , Dwight should play to his strengths which is his jumping ability and brute strength . I applaud his effort to do post moves but keep it simple and just have the intention of dunking on your man every chance you get like he did in Orlando
     
  16. chandlerbang21

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    But if your guard can't make the open midrange or even attempt it , what's the point when defenders can just fall back into the paint like OKC did last night ?
     
  17. DarkRock

    DarkRock Rookie

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    Harden loves ISO.
    Dwight loves PU.
    Who is Jeremy Lin?

    I truly believe that we have a serious identity crisis. No one can solve this problem but the coach and players themselves. They need to know what they have to do (or not do) to win. At the moment they are clueless.
     
  18. Kruze10

    Kruze10 Member

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    You're right but I think they're trying to build Howard into a post up player. I think everyone understands that this team is better with a Howard PnR, including the coaches and GM. But the team has invested money and time on him being able to do this that they are forcing it. Look at this season as a test run, even the coaches and players have all said they don't expect a title run this year, mainly because they're trying new things. Just look at the start of the year with Asik and Howard both playing, or moving Lin to the bench, or giving Jones a shot to play.
     
  19. blunto

    blunto Member

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    Way oversimplifying the the outcomes that can start with a PNR. You can get plenty of looks from three, shots at the rim, and freethrows. Lots of options, lots of factors.

    All you're describing is the most basic pick and pop set from midrange that fires on the option with the screener getting the open look when his defender stays home and ball handling defender goes under (or fights through, yielding a mismatch).

    BTW, Rockets have a few sets that start with a three point shooter setting the screen high and essentially "popping" for three.
     
  20. qiantom1999

    qiantom1999 Rookie

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    They do not practice P&Rs enough. Players do not know where to go on these plays to create space and open lanes and open up 3 pointers.

     

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