1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

It’s over

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, Feb 9, 2022.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,675
    Likes Received:
    41,554
    Certainly the virus is still with us and will be for a long long time. Delta was bad and while Omicron is much more infectious it doesn't appear to be worse than Delta and we are seeing that vaccination along with prior infection is reducing the severity of diseases. At the same time since this summer more people are vaccinated now and we have more therapeutics out there.

    Yes there could be another variant that comes out. There could be another novel disease that comes out. Here though I will agree with many others. Maintaining restrictions and mandates for what could happen is very problematic given that there are tradeoffs socially and economically with maintaining those. Given the data we're seeing now it makes sense to start lifting restrictions and mandates. That doesn't mean they should never come back but that where are at it makes sense to lift them.
     
  2. Gioan Baotixita

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2021
    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    405
    Damn, I coined the name Keebler Elf because he looks just like one. Lol
     
    MojoMan likes this.
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,149
    Likes Received:
    25,188
    Agreed except for bolded, as the rationale for blue states lifting restrictions is less in line with what the CDC is recommending, which is what many here and on the media had touted as the standard to follow.

    That divergence is causing partisans to spin or make excuses that virus numbers dropping as the sole cause of easing restrictions, which is BS when increasingly unpopular poll numbers is causing the shift.

    Voters are just less prone to care about immunocompromised or whatever at-risk-at-mercy > 5% groups right now than when they were thrown out as examples 3-6 months ago.
     
    B-Bob and MojoMan like this.
  4. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,711
    Likes Received:
    18,487
    CDC is taking a cautious stance because while it's dropping fast, it's still high. The last time the CDC changes their recommendation to relax was when new covid hospital admissions went down from ~15k per day to under 5k per day. We are still at ~13k per day (though dropping fast from a peak of 20k+ per day just a few weeks ago). CDC makes recommendations, policy makers make decisions. That's always how it has been. People seem to forget that the CDC didn't decide 65mph should be the highway speed.
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,675
    Likes Received:
    41,554
    Sure there is a difference between what the CDC Is recommending and what states are doing. That's been true much of this pandemic. We are seeing different views among many of those consider "trusted voices" and even within the CDC there are different opinions.
    OMG politicians are acting political? Color me shocked...

    Yes of course poll numbers are for lifting restrictions. Don't most people want their elected leaders to listen to what most of their constituents are saying.?

    This is again how out of partisanship we can't just take the win.

    In this case though there is hard data backing it up. Cases of new infections are plummeting and while while still there is still a very stubborn group refusing it vaccination numbers including boosters are rising. There is also plenty of evidence now that prior infection will at least prevent the most severe cases.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Goo...i30l5j0i390.6757j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    To emphasize this doesn't mean that the disease is gone or everyone who is vaccinated or previously infected won't get a severe case. Very likely many will still be dying but these are public policy decisions. Overall it is showing signs that restrictions can be lifted.
     
  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,149
    Likes Received:
    25,188
    Dems can't "take the win" inside their crumbling trench because Biden and the blue govs aren't agreeing on policy.

    I'm fine with relaxing restrictions. I just don't like the goal post shifting and hand wringing when it really isn't settled politically or scientifically.
     
    MojoMan likes this.
  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,675
    Likes Received:
    41,554
    And as we see here Republicans can't "take the win" even though relaxing restrictions is what they want out of partisanship.

    But you're asking for something that hasn't really happened the whole pandemic under both the prior and current Administrations. It's the nature of our Federal system that there will be some disagreement between the states and the Fed. Also any disagreement we see now pales compared to the last Administration when the Republican Governor of MD had to conduct his own foreign policy to get PPE as the Republican Administration was undermining his and other governors efforts.
    The problem is given how complicated and how much things change there is always going to be political and scientific debate. If goal posts are being shifted it's infection and other rates of the disease.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Goo...512j69i60l6.2402j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
    Again this isn't steady state where politicians are just caving in but there is real data that infections and other indicators are dropping fast.
     
  9. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    19,456
    Likes Received:
    25,365
    The biggest crumbling trench is Democracy when it comes to the the GOP party. They took sides with the Traitor, the liars about the vote, and led the charge to storm the Capitol to stay in power at all cost. Too many dead from their vicious lies and propaganda the past 3 years.
     
    Ubiquitin likes this.
  10. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,941
    Likes Received:
    12,825
    Hospitalizations have decreased by 70% in some states, like NJ where they had the strictest restrictions.

    The issue is we treated this as more of a state issue than a federal issue with Trump. Therefore we have a bunch of states doing their own thing with the federal money given.

    I’ve noticed how conservatives are saying this is political but at the same time they’ve been pushing for loosening restrictions ….. Riddle me that.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  11. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    20,941
    Likes Received:
    12,825
    Conservatives seemed to have convinced themselves the Dems want endless mandates and endless overreach.

    Its obviously absurd but politically shrewd. The “conservatives won and made Dems roll back” when in fact we were always going to roll back restrictions.
     
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Norway is the latest country to discard most coronavirus restrictions

    Norway has joined its Nordic neighbors in discarding most remaining coronavirus restrictions Saturday. Norwegian health officials lifted the majority of restrictions on Feb. 1, and they decided Saturday that the immunity levels and low hospitalization rates were sufficient to also ditch the remaining rules requiring social distancing, masking, and self-isolation after exposure.

    “This is the day we have been waiting for,” Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Stoere said during a news conference in the Norwegian capital of Oslo. “We are removing almost all coronavirus measures.”

    Sweden lifted most of its coronavirus rules Wednesday, ditching everything from vaccine passports to social distancing requirements and will designate COVID-19 as “not a danger to society or a threat to public health" beginning April 1. Denmark was the first European Union country to lift all restrictions on Feb. 1, deciding in January that COVID-19 “should no longer be categorized as a socially critical disease.”

    The United Kingdom also ended some coronavirus rules in January, including a testing requirement for vaccinated people entering the country and ending the quarantine requirements for unvaccinated travelers.
     
  13. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,638
    So... what Norway did was lift restrictions AFTER immunity levels were up and hospitalizations were down. Makes sense.
     
  14. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,711
    Likes Received:
    18,487
    This is correct. When the CDC (Biden Admin if you want) recommended dropping masks outdoor and indoor for vaccinated last summer, some of the blue state policymakers kept mask mandates. They were never always in sync. If you look at Mass today - they will be dropping statewide mask mandate on 2/28. But Boston will not. The mayor there says they will wait. And we have seen major legal fights between State and local officials over restrictions and non-restrictions, from TX to FL to California.
     
  15. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,720
    Likes Received:
    3,475
    Largely because the CDC guidelines made no sense. Did they officially walk that back? I think that was a point the CDC lost confidence of a significant number of people.
     
  16. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,711
    Likes Received:
    18,487
    Selective memory. Folks probably already forgot that Republicans were on board with restrictions early on.
     
  17. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,711
    Likes Received:
    18,487
    It made sense pre-Delta. There was no need for masking outdoor and if you were vaccinated, you don't need to mask. Delta changes that for indoor.
     
  18. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,720
    Likes Received:
    3,475
    Delta happened but the way it was sold was that the vaccine provided protection from infection. When that was found to be false, masks made sense.
     
  19. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,711
    Likes Received:
    18,487
    It did, pre-Delta.
     
  20. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    21,711
    Likes Received:
    18,487
    I think you should judge this at each level. Federal level with their mandate (travels, vaccination for fed workforce, etc). State levels for their own policies and even more local levels for their own policies.

    Just here in Houston, you have TX banning mask mandate, HISD ignoring them and have been mandating masks and so far, they are keeping the mandate stating that threat of Covid19 is still high (in Houston, it's still at the highest level). Looking at Houston, hospital usage and new cases are still not below their criteria to reduce threat (and positivity rate is well below the 37% peak last month but is still very high at 19%).

    Both NY and CA lifted indoor mask mandate and didn't reinstate it until around mid-Dec (earlier for some locals) due to Omicron. NY was one of the first state hit with Omicron and they are now over it. They are lifting the Omicron mandate on 2/21, well after the Omicron wave. They are still keeping mask mandate for school in place. Looking at CA, ICU usage never actually ticked up, hospitalized peaked 2 weeks ago and dropped fast, test positivity dived from 26% to 7%. Not as clean as NY, but their Omicron wave is also pretty much over.
     
    #120 Amiga, Feb 13, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now