definitely true. Israel won't let you out, egypt won't let you in....it's definitely difficult to impossible....especially right now. alternatively, i'd argue there have been equally difficult situations historically that people have escaped from. obviously you don't just save some money, go buy a lei and book that trip to Hawaii, but you do make that effort to get out...or at least I do, and that's my point.
fine, you're right and I'm wrong. thousands and thousands of years of violence in the region is all due to the evil Zionists. the comparison is similar to the Obama quote in post #131. it's not perfect. again, if it was, it wouldn't be a comparison, it'd just be the exact same situation. if my post(s) "started with that comparison", it was only to point out, in a thread heavily favoring the "other side", that response, and right and wrong, are heavily dependent on perspective (something you have none of, btw). If you think that makes me pro-Zionism, even though I've never said that, have said the complete opposite, and it's just an assumption you're making...again, fine, go to town. you know what they say about assumptions.
You understand that Israel just blew up a bunch of the tunnels between Gaza and Egypt and that the Egyptians are also blocking the border. This isn't trying to get out of Houston during the Rita evacuation, very difficult, this is more like trying to escape the Warsaw Ghetto, practically impossible.
i just said they couldn't go to egypt, in the post you quoted. i'm not trying to say they should get up and leave right now (though if they could, they should...but they currently can't). and again, i hate going down this route, because i'm not just talking about Palestinians. i'm making a general point that if I'm a member of either side, living in that region, i'm thinking of ways to leave.
Here's my two drachmas on the situation. Hamas is wrong to encourage or at least allow rockets to be fired into Israel while the cease fire was going on. I agree that they started this current round and Israel has a right to protect its citizens. Israel though is very wrong in its total disproportionate response. Certainly the duty of any government is to see to the safety of its citizens and whether 0 or a 100 Israelis were killed it is still the responsibility of the government to address a threat to the safety of the people. The response should be proportionate and given the delicate nature of area they need to think about the long term implications of what that response might do. The probably with the Israeli response to this current round of fighting and really to most of their military responses is that while it might lead to short term safety usually leads to either not improving things down the line or making things worse. The invasions of Lebanon in both the 80's and two years ago either ended up in costly occupations or in a humiliating set back. The incursions into Ramallah, Rafah and Bethelem didn't make Israel any safer either. The biggest problem that I see with the Israeli policies is that they should know already given the last 20 years that the one strategy that actually works to make things safer is economic development of the Palistinians. For instance following the 1993 Oslo peace accords there were years of relative peace. In fact for a while terrorism by Jewish extremists, assasinating Rabin and shooting up a mosque, was dominating headlines. During that time the Palestinian economy was booming and there were plans to build an airport in Gaza along with tourist resorts. The response though during the second Intifada though and other conflicts as been to practically due everything possible to kill the Palestinian economy especially in Gaza. IMO what the Israelis should've been doing is rather than close Gaza off but flood it with goods. For the most part the Palestinians aren't religious fanatics and the reason Hamas is in power isn't because the Palestinians are fundamentalist but because Fatah wasn't delivering. If the Palestinians can become economicly successful though its unlikely they will be willing to stick with Hamas. Until then though the Israelis and Palestinians are just going to be locked into a continuing cycle of violence.
The other three sides of Gaza are surrounded by Israel and then the Mediterranean where there is a naval blockade. FOr that matter the people in Gaza are practically destitute and have no money to go up and settle anywhere or even buy a plane ticket if they could. I still think you are downplaying how difficult it is for anyone from their to just get up and leave. Also you are forgetting too that you are talking about just leaving a place that has been your home and your families home for generations. Even for the Israelis who have now lived there for more than 50 years.
Yes they were. On a side note on NPR they had a spokesman from Hamas who claimed that they never fired any missiles during the ceasefire and that it was Arab collaborators doing so at the behest of Israel.
Not sure I buy that...but ok. I can't take a side in this conflict. Both sides have heaps and heaps of blame. I'm holding up exhibit "A" for what happens when you consistently meet violence with violence..you poison yourself and you ruin the lives of others. Finding some other creative solution is certainly not easy...I understand that. But continuing down this path expecting a different result is insanity.
no doubt it is hard (as it has been historically for people of other cultures, as well), impossible right now, today. but it has definitely happened historically. a quick google search pops up articles. here's a good one. http://www.reuters.com/article/featuredCrisis/idUSL1247405 that's the point i'm getting at, i guess. it's just a place. you could die. that's what i find moronic.
israel had blockaded gaza not letting in even food and medical supplies, cutting off any money from coming in, even during important holidays so that no civil servants could be paid. israel had closed oil supplies from coming in off and on creating massive blackouts. and all this had been happening for over a year. israel continued to assassinate leaders in which dozens of civilians died inside gaza throughout the past year or more. this absurd notion that israel sat by while hamas did all this is ridiculous. israel responded continuously. also, i'd like to know when terrorists attacks occur, we refuse to even discuss the objections of the terrorists, and get all high and mighty and say those who took the planes, or pulled the trigger are the only ones to blame. perhaps there is some logic to that. but here, israel is lobbing missles in civilian areas for 4 straight days, killing 400, wounding a couple thousand, cutting off basic supplies, to an area that had been blockaided for over a year, and yet hamas lobbing rockets is the only one to blame? so how can we expect people in gaza to not blame israel and only israel. it'd be nice to start with this understanding before any attempt at resolving this issue. rockets being fired into israel is wrong. but lets not equivocate so damn much. one side is one and a half million poor folks living in refugee camps for generations and being utterly destitute. among whom there are groups that are bitterly militaristic due to the conditions that they've been under for generations. doesn't mean these militaristic actions aren't utterly wrong. but the other side is a first world country with a military that is very capable. so yes i freaking expect more restraint, more caution, and more respect for human dignity and human life.
Actually, before 1948 Christians made the majority of all the major Palestinian cities. But when the wars started breaking out many fled to the U.S. and other countries. There's still a Christian presence there as about 30% of Ramallah is still Christian.
The freedome and democracy loving Israelis will not let any members of the media into Gaza: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/12/gaza-strip-in-1.html Hmmm, I wonder why?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230456524549&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull Hamas sends rockets into a kindergarten, luckily noone hurt/killed. As long as Hamas continues to send rockets, Israel will continue to strike back.
