I thought that was shone to be a celebration from a different time There is a kid among the Palestinains . .. watching bombs fall and people dying and guess what . . . HE/SHE WILL NEVER *FORGIVE* THE ISREALIs just Like sometime ago . . an ISREALI child watch something similar is now launching bombs at Gaza feeling like he is getting his revenge on and on . . .on and on Rocket River
Yup. Unless both side comes to their senses and stop this crap it will continue forever. I have a question, how would people in Texas feel if say aliens came and decide to give Texas back to Mexico and everyone in Texas have to give up what ever property they have if the Mexico government asks for it? You have no way to fight these aliens as their armed force is far superior to our armed forces. Would everyone just willingly give up their home and leave? This is one huge mess with no ends unless one side totally wipe out the other side or BOTH SIDES agrees to peace.
Well said. This is why any American president saying that they are going to bring pace to the Middle East is operating under an arrogant notion of our abilities.
It's Hamas' fault for hiding between and behind innocent civilians. So you are saying because there is no guarantee this will stop the rocketfire, they are not allowed to do anything about it? So if I already know someone is going to hit me again as soon as I give him an inch of room to breathe, I should just not do anything about it and let him hit me? You are confusing cause and effect. The hatred is sowed by Hamas and its supporters. That's what leads to firing rockets at Israel. Israel has to react.
I suggest you do your research. The Chinese Wall was an act of war. As was the Berlin wall. To put it in simpler terms, if we're in a playground, and I just joined the school, and I draw a line on the floor proclaiming that you are never to cross this line which I drew as I liked, that is an act of war. But the Israeli wall is more than that. It cuts life. Mexico is a country. China is a country. Israel has blocked water and food. It is the kind of mental warfare that goes unnoticed by the simple minded. As I explained to you, it's object is to gain a strategic advantage over the Palestinians, and one of its functions is that it can starve the Palestinians. More important than anything is that if Israel's goal was self-protection and peace, it wouldn't expand at the rate it has been expanding since the conflict began. I'd like you to address this point if you can please. I've never understood how this has been overlooked. As for the history of the war, I'd like you to explain to me when in the history of the world a territory was given to a religious group (or even ethnicity) for them to create a country. Your link tells me ALL I need to know assuming Israel has been given the "right" to create a state. It doesn't tell me why the Jewish were given Palestine's land. Why not Chinese land? Why not anywhere else? Think about it this way. If the U.S. decided that the Kurds deserve their own country, and they gave the most resourceful piece of Afghanistan to them... Would that be cool? How would Afghanis feel/react? No one is going to solve all this. Right now we should just be thinking about why Israel is shooting fish in an aquarium with a shotgun knowing full well they won't considerably weaken or restrain Hamas. But they know the civilians will die, and they will never come back. 4 Israelis have died because of Hamas and 500 Palestinians because of Israel. Nevermind that Palestine is not the same as Hamas. Just like Americans are not the same as the American Government.
I studied Israeli history as an undergrad, and certainly did plenty of diligent reading, and I can say that 4 years here has certainly challenged all of that. It's easy to spend your whole life reading things to support what you already think. The truth is very, very gray, and my time here has made me extremely cynical. This war sucks. I don't like Hamas or it's agenda, or the way it goes about achieving it. I think the people in Gaza are trapped by Hamas, by Israel for blockading them because of Hamas, and for Egypt and the rest of the arab world for leaving them no escape route. Hamas stepped up the rockets in order to get better terms for the upcoming renewal of the cease fire. Israel bombed the crap out of them ostensibly for the same reason. It's common knowledge though, that the operation was in planning for a year. It's got Barak written all over it. I have a few friends who warned this was coming months ago. This is the worst attack on Gaza since 1967, which incidentally is also the last time Israel "won" a war. Tension is pretty high, but it's seriously creepy. Other than the traditional anti-war Left, and Israeli Arabs, especially of the red flag waving variety, the nation has been pretty mute in its opposition. Don't get me wrong -- I have friends that live in Sderot and Be'ersheva. The threat of Kassams is no joke. I do think something needed to be done, but I'm very suspcious of the country's leadership, and even more, the very xenophobic and racist language I hear, especially in counter demonstrations on the street. And that's the thing. It was always there. I just never heard it. Even the not so radical people start to listen when the ultra-nationalists say "This is what happens when we leave Gaza, do we dare leave the West Bank?" Something has changed here, more so than in 2006 with the Lebanon fiasco, and I suspect this is going to get a good deal worse. Israel really set a trap for itself, I think, because if they fail to take out Hamas completely at this point, it's not likely to be the PA in charge, it's likely a much more radical group waiting in the wings when things get worse. And it can always get worse. I just booked a show on the 28th in Be'ersheva (I'm a musician) and I was told that by law no more than 30 people can be in a place at a time due to the rockets. I'm not going to wave one flag or another. I don't feel right joining an anti-war protest and I sure as hell have no interest in being a cheerleader for bombings. I'm just going to play music and try to cheer people up. Anyway, that's my take. I appreciate Ottomaton and other sober posters that have kept the discussion from becoming a reenactment of the Yom Kippur War
Two sets of questions, one for each side of the debate. For those of you who believe Israel is in the right here: Do you believe this offensive will stop the rockets or stop/truly weaken Hamas in the long-run? If not, what is the point other than needing to respond in some way? If so, what makes you think this could be more effective than their ground incursion into Lebanon, for example, where Hezbollah only ended up strengthening its position? For those of you who believe Israel is in the wrong here: What do you propose they do in the short-term? Should they just accept rockets randomly killing/injuring Israeli citizens? Small responses have proven to be not effective. Even peace discussions have only created temporary peace until Hamas or another group decides they are tired of peace and want to go back to launching rockets or suicide bombers.
I see both sides at fault. I think this will be more effective than Hezbollah simply because Hezbollah are stronger and Lebanon was in a much better position to defend itself than Palestine is today. As for the second part, I expect them to be honest about their intentions. Self-defense does not include expansion. Yes, a good offense can create a good defense, but expansion is not offense. Attacking is offense. Expansion is putting a 6th player on the basketball court and no one noticing. I think a good step would be to explain why Israel has expanded. If the expansion is not merited, then give back lands they have expanded into (regardless of the inconvenience, lol) and announce that they will never expand again. This is not a lot to ask of any country in the world. Mexico, don't take part of America. Australia, don't take part of New Zealand. Morocco, don't take Algeria. Israel, don't take Palestinian land. Simple.
first deji thanks for the post. it was a good read. major, hamas essentially wanted the cease fire to include a lifting of the blockade. israel refused to budge, so hamas started the rocketfire to force israel to bargain or in the alternative invade which makes it, akin to hezbollah (though i do not thing hezbollah and lebanon in 06 are entirely comparable with hamas and gaza today), a cause celebre. israel should have ended the blockade in exchange for the truce.
LOL. How remarkably convenient of you to provide historical commentary with a scaled view of the conflict while omitting the initial creation of Israel and confiscation of Palestinian land. Silly me, pray tell why the Arabs got "belligerent and decided to fight Israel."
I definitely agree that the creation of Israel in 1948 was a flawed concept. However, the attacks on pizza parlors, etc that have been commonplace for the last 25 to 30 years cannot be tolerated. You cannot expect Israel to get hit in the nose and not swing back. That is a silly notion.
Israel despite the Lobby is almost totally beholden to the US. If we joined the rest of the world in demanding that Israel return to its pre 1967 borders, which the whole Arab World and even a strong majority of Palestinians want, there would be an excellent chance of peace. Only the extremists on both sides would not be relieved. Without our aid and with an international boycott movement such as started with South Africa, Israel would concede fairly quickly or the economy would collapse in short order.
name me such attacks in the past 2-3 years. how about attacking back if you are blockaded and you don't have common food stuff or basic medicine or fuel or electricity? im not at all defending random rocketfire that hits civilian areas. but i am equating it with israeli attacks in gaza in the past week. doc on cnn just now. 80 people came to the hospital today from a single incident at a food market. they don't have supplies/medicines/space. and they'll run out of fuel for the generators at the hospitals in a day or two.
Dem de breaks. If they don't like it, maybe they shouldn't have been born Palestinians. This is war, and in war people die. Signed, Average American
look at the rasmussen post. this isn't true. the american public is split fairly evenly. 44 ok with military action in gaza 41 percent not.
Just as you can expect Hamas won't stop firing rockets as the people that voted them into a position of power are starving to death for that same cause. The Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have been living in conditions three times worse than prisoners here in state correctional facilities.
I don't care what people say in opinion polls. The majority of Americans do not see the rest of the world's population as their equals.
