This struggle actually does not go back for ages. Jews were living peacefully in the middle east and under muslim governments for over the last millenium. When jews were expelled from Spain during the Spanish Inquisition many returned to the middle east and lived peacefully. Jews were arguably treated much better in muslim lands than in christian lands well before Nazi Germany. Pre-zionism, Jews lived and coexisted with muslims peacefully. The creation of a Jewish state within a land already filled with other people caused most of the animosity felt today. This is a 20th century problem, and one that can be solved when the children of the old buzzards like Arafat and Sharon see the error of their ways. I do sympathize with both groups, but I see Israel as the country recieving Billions in US financial aid and is the reason for much resentment of the US in the Arab/Muslim world. I believe this is not only a drain on our economy based on oil, but on spending patterns and anti-americanism adversely effecting our economy. I think because of our support, we must pressure Israel to make a solution and give them a state. Make it fair, and settle this displaced population that uses terror as its outlet. If they don't comply, we could cut off their funding and economic free trade benefits etc. We basically subsidize Israel's tiny population a bit larger than that of Houston's with billions of dollars. Without US support they would collapse within a few years. I believe our handouts of money and military weapons/support lets them not settle as it is not a drain on their economy. If we let them feel the pinch, they'll make a settlement that is fair on both sides.
Baron de Rothschild had a dream to rid the Holy Land of arabs and for decades, his dream was slowly but surely on track. But now the arabs are reproducing like rabbits faster than they can ethnic-cleanse them away. Who knows what the powers that be have in store for the next chapter...
Originally posted by AggieRocket I understand now. All Arafat had to do to be justified in his actions is make a couple of warning calls. Bin Laden constantly sends videos saying that we should be prepared for a massive attack. Pardon, but you're being ridiculous. Warning calls are intended to avoid the loss of life. Does bin laden try to avoid the loss of life? Did Arafat? I won't defend all of Begin's actions, but he attacked a military target and tried to avoid the loss of life. If you cannot see the difference... Does that justify his actions to you? I really don't feel that I can judge them either way because I'm not certain of the details. If he sought to murder innocents, then I say he's not justified. If he sought to inflict harm on an enemy military, then I say he's justified. I hope you realize how silly that sounds. You've got to be kidding. Plus, the King David Hotel is hardly the only example of pre-Israeli and Israeli terrorism. 250 people were massacred and 70000 were left homeless in Israeli attacks on the villages of Lydda and Ramle in July 1948. Hundreds of unarmed villagers were massacred in Doueimah in October 1948. This does not even mention Israeli terrorism on American instillations. You can even look to recent history and see the massacres of Shala and Chatilla in 1982 (orchestrated by Ariel Sharon). Groups may have denounced these attacks, but that was nothing more than lip service. I am well aware of historical Israeli terrorism. I am also aware of Sabra and Shatila. I have denounced Sharon on a number of occasions. He was held responsible for the massacre by the Israeli government and fired by none other than Begin. You may call that 'lip service', but the Israeli government took a definitive stand against such actions; the PLO never has. Just like Arafat donating blood after September 11th. The only difference is that I have the ability to realize that Arafat was a bad man and involved in lip service. It seems to me that you lack that ability when it comes to Israel. Utter nonsense. Don't make assumptions about my opinions just because you cannot follow a discussion with sufficient proficiency. The Jewish population owned less than 10% of the land prior to May 1948, but were given 78% according to the Partition Plan. I do not blame the Jews entirely, but I do see the Palestinian point of view. If I owned more than 90% of the land, I would want more than 22%. Undoubtedly you would as well. Even if the Jews did not want all of the land (I am assuming that is your position), they managed to get it. I am not familiar with the school example that you give, but I do know that Israel did not prevent a lot of other acts of terror and bloodshed. As a matter of fact, they participated actively in a lot of it. First, just because the Israelis owned 10%, don't assume that the Arabs owned 90%. Much of the land was desert not owned by anyone, it was simply part of the British mandate. Second, the partition was to give the Jews 55%, not 78%. That said, I don't know how the UN determined Palestine and Israel. Even at the corrected levels, it does not appear equitable to me. You're not implying that this How is it unsubstantiated? If Israel and the Palestinians are at war, then wouldn't logic say that the war would stop once one side reaches its objective? Why do Hamas and Hezbollah want to destroy Israel? Do not tell me that it is because they are Jewish. From a religious perspective, Jews and Muslims do not have hatred for one another. As you mentioned, they died together during the Crusades. Jews live in Iraq and Iran. Those are the two most radical Islamic countries on Earth. Hamas hates Israel because of the land conflict. Both Jews and Arabs lived in Palestine prior to the Partition conflict. Did Arabs kill Jews during that period? No. Did Jews kill Arabs? No. How is it unsubstantiated? All you need to do is look at the E V I D E N C E. Again, I wish your naive view was the reality, but it's not. Until the Israelis believe that the Palestinian Nation would desire to live in peace, that those who have sworn loyalty to the goal of pushing Israel into the sea are controlled or at least ostracized from the Palestinian community, Israel will keep them under the thumb. That's the reality. I am not the naive one here. Yes, yes you are. In all of my posts, I have blamed both parties equally. No, no you didn't. You seem to be the side that sees it from one perspective and one perspective only. No, no, no I don't. You amaze me. Terrorism today is not the same as terrorism fifty years ago? I would love for you to explain that to me. Well, hmmm. For starters, terrorism today can terrorize and even kill you. Terrorism 50 years ago can do neither. Why is it such a challenging concept for you? Do you still hold Romans accountable for throwing Christians to the lions? Throwing people to the lions may have been 'acceptable' in it's time. It is no longer acceptable, and I doubt Christians today fear someone grabbing them and tossing them in the pit. That's how time works. Some things get better, some worse, some don't change. In your world, all eras apparently live in the present. There is no need to improve, because your perspective does not allow it.
