You can claim your facts, but are incorrect. Who fired the rockets. Hamas did not break the cease fire. Hamas does not have absolute control over all the folks resisting Israel in Gaza. Your claim is analogous to claiming that the settlers who burned the innocent Palestinians kid to death on the West Bank were directly ordered and controlled by Netanyahu and the Israeli state.
I think they would prefer American society post Civil Rights Era in which people of all ethnicities and religions have equal rights. There are even some Israelis who would prefer this and I believe that as in the Jim Crow South and South Africa most of the rest can develop that preference in a relatively short time. Such a society like we have here seems to be pretty good for Jewish people.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/01/friends-israel This is a link to a very good article detailing in great detail how AIPAC got started and how with just 3% Jewish population concentrated largely in 9 states operates to intimidate the US Congress and even our president. It talks about its recent defeat as they essentially tried to move a decisive step closer to war with Iran but were narrowly defeated. They are losing support among younger voters and younger Jewish voters. These Jewish voters tend to follow Israel closer than the average American getting just mainstream media feeds. ************ The Pew Center’s survey found that only thirty-eight per cent of American Jews believe that the Israeli government is sincerely pursuing peace; forty-four per cent believe that the construction of new settlements damages Israel’s national security. In a Gallup poll in late July, only a quarter of Americans under the age of thirty thought that Israel’s actions in Gaza were justified. As Rabbi Jill Jacobs, the executive director of the left-leaning T’ruah: The Rabbinic Call for Human Rights, told me, “Many people I know in their twenties and thirties say, I have a perfectly good Jewish life here—why do I need to worry about this country in the Middle East where they’re not representing who I am as a Jew?
The statistical information I bolded is something I agree with, based on conversations with Jewish friends who feel much the same way. The anecdotal comment by Rabbi Jacobs? I don't agree with that at all. The same Jewish friends who disagree with Israeli policies regarding the settlements, Gaza, and the pursuit of peace (they don't find the pursuit very convincing) also care deeply about the state of Israel. Anecdotal? Of course. Just as anecdotal as Rabbi Jacobs' opinion. He speaks for himself. My friends speak for themselves. Frankly, all things being equal, I prefer to believe my friends provide a more believable window into the feelings of Jewish Americans than Jacobs, who is being, in my opinion, either disingenuous (as in he has it wrong, knows it, and has an agenda) or needs his glasses checked. American Jews, in the main, and in my opinion, care deeply about Israel. What they don't care for is the current government. Rabin was someone they very much supported while he was PM, before he was murdered by a far-right Israeli. Were Jewish Americans allowed to vote in Israeli elections, impossible, of course, but if they were, we'd see an Israeli government more like that of the late Prime Minister Rabin. In my humble opinion.
Israel engages in collective punishment of Gazans leveling hi-rises predominately occupied by middle class Gazans. http://news.msn.com/world/israel-destroys-2-gaza-high-rises-in-escalation Israel destroys 2 Gaza high-rises in escalation GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israel bombed two Gaza City high-rises with dozens of homes and shops Tuesday, collapsing one building and severely damaging the other in a further escalation of seven weeks of cross-border fighting with Hamas. In the past, the military has hit targets in high-rises in pinpoint strikes, but left the buildings standing. However, since Saturday, it has toppled or destroyed five towers and shopping complexes in an apparent new tactic aimed at increasing pressure on the Hamas militant group. The objects of the latest strikes contain apartments inhabited almost exclusively by middle-class Gazans, who up until now have been largely spared the considerable dislocation that has affected tens of thousands of other residents in densely populated neighborhoods of the coastal strip, like Shijaiyah. That has raised the possibility that the Israeli military is trying to use better-off Gazans, like professionals and Palestinian authority employees, to put pressure on Hamas to end the fighting on Israel's terms. Tuesday's strikes leveled the 15-story Basha Tower with apartments and offices and severely damaged the Italian Complex, built in the 1990s by an Italian businessman, with dozens of shops and offices. Both buildings were evacuated after receiving warnings of impending strikes. Gaza health official Ashraf al-Kidra said 25 people were wounded in the attack on the Italian Complex. One resident of the Italian Complex, 38-year-old engineer Nael Mousa, said that he, his four children and 70-year-old mother had managed to flee the building late Monday night after a guard had alerted them of an impending strike, and that he was in his car some 300 meters (yards) away when it was bombed by an Israeli F-16 fighter jet. Within two hours, he said, it had been completely levelled by at least five additional bombs. "I have become homeless, my children's fear will never be soothed, and something new has now been added to our feelings toward Israel and all the world, which has been looking on without doing anything," he said. The Israeli military said it targeted sites linked to militants Tuesday, but made no specific reference to the two buildings. Israel alleges Hamas often operates from civilian locations. The military has not said why it has begun collapsing large buildings, rather than carrying out pinpointed strikes against suspected militant targets located there. In an email message to The Associated Press, military spokesman Lt. Col. Peter Lerner said the strikes were "a direct result to Hamas' decision to situate their terrorist infrastructure within the civilian sphere including schools, hospitals and high-rise buildings." He said Israel will not "enable Hamas to continue to kill Israelis, target our towns and cities and expect to operate without consequence to their facilities, militant operatives and the leadership of their heinous attacks against Israel." Political scientist Mkhaimar Abu Sada from Gaza's Al Azhar University said he believed the Israeli tactic was a deliberate attempt to pressure Hamas by targeting middle class structures in neighborhoods like Rimal and Tel al-Hawa, which have so far been spared the worst of the fighting. He said the tactic will end up creating even greater antipathy toward Israel, but might also result in some tough questions being asked about Hamas' conduct of the war. "Some people will now be wondering why Hamas did not accept a cease-fire proposal during the first week of the fighting, when the damage here was still relatively small," he said. Retired Israeli air force brigadier general Shlomo Brom, now a fellow at the Institute for National Security Studies in Tel Aviv, said he was doubtful that the high-rise structures had been targeted solely because of their middle-class makeups. "I have no doubt that these buildings were hit primarily because they contained offices or other facilities that belonged to Hamas," he said. Also on Tuesday, two people were killed in an airstrike on a house in Gaza City, police said, and the Red Crescent reported that two others died and three were wounded when Israeli tanks opened fire on Shijaiyah, east of Gaza City. Israel's military said it carried out 15 air strikes in Gaza on Tuesday. It said eight rockets were launched from the coastal strip at Israeli territory, including one that caused extensive damage to a home in the southern city of Ashkelon and lightly injured more than a dozen people there. The latest strikes came as Egypt urged Israel and Hamas to resume indirect talks on a permanent cease-fire, based on an Egyptian proposal for a new border deal for blockaded Gaza. The Egyptian offer calls for a gradual easing of restrictions on trade and movement in and out of Gaza and would give Hamas' Palestinian rival, President Mahmoud Abbas, a foothold in the strip. Hamas seized Gaza from Abbas in 2007, triggering the blockade that has been enforced to varying degrees since then. Israel and Hamas have not responded to Egypt's latest call. Gaza's war has so far killed at least 2,133 Palestinians and wounded more than 11,000, according to Palestinian health officials and the United Nations. The U.N. estimates more than 17,000 homes have been destroyed, leaving 100,000 people homeless. On the Israeli side, 68 people have been killed, all but four of them soldiers.
Let's hope Egypt can broker some kind of a permanent cease-fire, but I doubt it. Marginalizing Hamas may be a good first step.
Not sure if this is posted yet, so Hamas finally admit it's members are responsible for kidnapping & killing the 3 Israeli teens that some might say started this recent conflict. "Hamas admits its men abducted Israeli teens, says its leaders didn't know" http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/world/meast/mideast-crisis/
I think what you are observing is your friends who probably skew older are the old liberal Zionists types. There are many. I have friends like that. I find that the younger Jews I know are much more likely to not be Zionists and to be deeply ashamed of Israel as it becomes more and more racist and right wing. Israel is gradually losing its place as the dominant center of Jewish life for American Jews. Their place is being taken by right wing Christian Zionist types or even secular conservatives as we see imho on this bbs who support Israel's continual move to the right.
This whole thing is simple. Hamas and the Palestinians want the Jews eliminated from the Middle East. Even if permanent borders were established, there would still be tension and blood spilled. Zionists and Israelies want Palestinians and Arab influence out of Palestine. Even if permanent borders were established, there would be tension and blood spilled. Palestine elected an organization in Hamas that has long been anti-semetic, does not recognize Israel and simply hates Jews. Israel has elected leaders do not care about collateral damage to Palestinians, does not stop settlement and has no issue oppressing Palestinians.
Looks like there is another perhaps relatively permanent ceasefire like the one that lasted 19 months before the latest invasion of Gaza. Israel agreed to open the borders back to the level which led to the 2012 cease. This was a degree of openness that Israel never lived up to. Israel and Netanyahu gained nothing out of the deal. The Palestinians in Gaza may have improved their condition. Hamas as the leader of the Palestinian resistance gained more support. ************ Ceasefire deal after weeks of fighting in Gaza promises easing of blockade Alex Kane on August 26, 2014 3 Comments The reported terms of the deal are similar to the 2012 agreement that ended Israel’s last assault on Gaza, though that deal was never implemented. It remains to be seen whether a real easing of the blockade, the core demand of Palestinians, will take place. There was no mechanism for enforcing that 2012 agreement, and it doesn’t look like there will be a mechanism for enforcing this deal. Nevertheless, representatives of Palestinian parties are celebrating the deal as a victory, and people in Gaza have also taken to the streets in celebration. ... The deal also reportedly includes the opening of the Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza, and an easing of restrictions on fishing off the Gaza coast. The Palestinian Authority will govern the Palestinian side of the Rafah crossing, a return to arrangements at the border before Hamas and Fatah fought a brief battle for control of Gaza in 2007. The buffer zone that eats up agricultural land in Gaza near the Israel border will also be eased. Other key issues that Hamas demanded will be talked about in a month. Those include the release of Palestinian prisoners, an airport and seaport for Gaza and the transfer of funds from Qatar to government employees in Gaza that Israel has blocked. Hamas also is said to hold the remains of two Israeli soldiers, which potentially paves the way towards a prisoner swap. ]In Israel, the reaction was much more dour. The deal was unilaterally agreed to by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu without the consent of his cabinet. Netanyahu’s coalition partners–and political rivals–Naftali Bennett and Avigdor Lieberman oppose the cease-fire. The prime minister is sure to take a political beating in the aftermath of the war. His poll numbers have already dropped in recent days from 82 percent to 38 percent And political officials in the south of Israel, which have bore the brunt of Palestinian rocket and mortar attacks, have harshly criticized the deal. “Any concession to Hamas is a surrender to terrorism,” the mayor of Ashkelon told Haaretz. http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/ceasefire-promises-blockade.html
I love the way Glynch phrases things. Much like the one that lasted 19 months before the latest invasion by Israel. Questions: During this 19 month ceasefire that was broken by Israel's invasion, did Hamas fire rockets into Israel? Did they murder Israeli civilians? Was the ceasefire truly honored?
He just loses all credibility with his black and white view of something that has enough blame to go around for 1000 years. I am not sure if he would be crying and in shock as the Israelies were shot in the head and dumped into the Dead Sea if the power dynamics shifted.... or if he would be helping Hamas line the Jews up for kill shots. Anyone that doubts either side wants to destroy the other is really naive.
Both sides have agreed to an indefinite ceasefire. Let's hope this one last longer than the other ones. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/26/gaza-ceasefire-israel-palestinians-halt-fighting Gaza ceasefire: Israel and Palestinians agree to halt weeks of fighting Terms of indefinite ceasefire – brokered by Egypt – expected to be similar to those agreed at the end of 2012 conflict The war in Gaza ended on Tuesday after Israel and the Palestinians agreed to halt fighting indefinitely, putting an end to seven weeks of catastrophic loss of life and destruction, but on terms which are likely to leave many on both sides of the conflict wondering what had been achieved. Hamas and Islamic Jihad – the main militant groups in Gaza – the Palestinian Authority and Israel agreed on an open-ended ceasefire beginning at 7pm on Tuesday evening, bringing relief to civilians on both sides of the border. Rocket fire and airstrikes continued until the last moments, and sirens sounded across southern Israel past 7pm. One Israeli was killed and several injured by a mortar shortly before the deadline, the Israel Defence Forces said. In Gaza, two children were killed in an airstrike in Khan Younis shortly before the ceasefire, and police reported that an Israeli airstrike flattened a seven-storey building in Beit Lahiya, the sixth high-rise to be toppled since the weekend. As the ceasefire came into effect, Gaza echoed with celebratory gunfire and mosques announced victory through their loudspeakers. Tens of thousands of people took to the streets in response to text messages sent by Hamas urging victory celebrations. But the terms of the deal – brokered by the Egyptian government, and reached on the 50th day of the conflict – appeared to be almost identical to those agreed at the end of the previous war 21 months ago. Israel will open crossings on its border to allow the humanitarian aid and construction materials to enter Gaza, and will extend the permitted fishing zone to six miles off the coast of Gaza. The Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt is also to be opened. More difficult issues will be deferred for further indirect talks between the two parties in a month. They include Hamas's demands for an airport and seaport in Gaza and the release of Palestinian prisoners, and Israel's insistence on the disarmament of militant groups and the return of the remains of two of its soldiers killed in the fighting. In a televised address, Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas thanked the Egyptians, Qataris and US secretary of state John Kerry for their efforts to secure a ceasefire. He added: "The question is now 'What's next?' Gaza suffered three wars and are we expecting another one? We will consult friends and the international community, and we can't continue with 'cloudy negotiations'." At a press conference at the Shifa hospital in Gaza City, Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said: "Hamas is grateful to the people of Gaza who sacrificed their homes, children and money. We announce the victory today after achieving our goals." He added: "[Israeli prime minister Binyamin] Netanyahu has failed to force Gaza to surrender. Yes, we defeated them by our standing and our resistance. We will stand by our people and we won't leave them." Israel accepted the ceasefire, although three cabinet members, including the hardline foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman, voiced opposition, according to Israeli media. A government official said: "Israel has accepted an Egyptian proposal for a complete and unlimited-in-time ceasefire. Israel accepted already the Egyptian proposal on 15 July. Israel has always supported an unconditional, open-ended ceasefire." A US state department spokeswoman said: "We call on all parties to fully and completely comply with its terms, and hope very much that the ceasefire will prove to be durable and sustainable. We view this as an opportunity, not a certainty. There is a long road ahead and we're aware of that, and we're going into this eyes wide open." The deal follows at least eight temporary ceasefires during the course of the conflict. In Gaza, more than 2,100 people have been killed, most of them civilians, including about 500 children, in the past seven weeks. At least 11,000 people were injured and more than 17,000 homes destroyed or badly damaged. Around a third of Gaza's 1.8 million population has been displaced, many now living in United Nations shelters. Schools, hospitals, factories, farms, mosques and infrastructure such as power and water plants were hit. Reconstruction could take up to 10 years, say analysts. On the Israeli side, 64 soldiers died and five civilians – including a four-year-old boy – were killed. Hundreds of families relocated from homes near the Gaza border to safer areas further north. The Israeli military estimates that the weapons stocks of Hamas and other militant groups have fallen to less than a third of their pre-war levels, by being fired or destroyed in airstrikes. Three of Hamas's top military commanders were killed last week, and the fate of its military chief , is still unknown after his wife and two children were killed in a massive airstrike last Tuesday. However the organisation claims to have won respect among Palestinians for putting up strong resistance against Israel's military onslaught. Israeli leaders are expected to claim to have severely weakened Hamas over the past seven weeks, and restored "quiet" to areas within rocket range. Egypt will hope to gain international credibility from brokering a ceasefire agreement after weeks of abortive talks hosted in Cairo. The Gaza conflict began on 8 July following weeks of tension after the abduction and murder of three Israeli teenagers in the West Bank, and the subsequent revenge killing of a Palestinian youth. Israel responded with a wave of arrests of Hamas members, which triggered intensified rocket fire from Gaza.
I guess Hamas is starting to run out of rockets and wants to re-stock. The ceasefire agreements are only meant to allow Hamas to buy more rockets and terror weapons. It's always the same.
I think the answer is "yes" Hamas honored the cease fire. There might have been several rockets during the period by non-Hamas radicals.
You mean to tell me Hamas did not investigate and arrest these people breaking the cease fire and endangering the lives of their fellow citizens potentially averting Israeli retaliation?
how can you be sure that they weren't fired by Hamas? what evidence do you have to say it was or wasn't.... Also, why is that article "not true or misleading." Hamas' own representatives are the ones admitting to killing those 3 Israeli teens.... from the article: "Saleh Aruri, a Hamas Political Bureau member, said in a statement from Doha, Qatar, the operation to abduct the teens was not approved by the Hamas leadership or its military wing, the Qassam Brigades. "At that time, the Hamas leadership had no knowledge about this group or the operation it had just carried," Aruri said, referring to the abductors. "It turned out later, however, that they were members of Hamas.""
