Israel is doing the right thing by killing Hamas leaders

First round is on me buddy.

Ofcourse Khanny boy over here doesnt think I can afford that since I'm a "secretary." It's a good thing we have secretaries in the office to take care of that sort of work. Not like he cares, since he's better than people like that.

 

Israeli Economy:

Israel has a technologically advanced market economy with substantial government participation. It depends on imports of crude oil, grains, raw materials, and military equipment. Despite limited natural resources, Israel has intensively developed its agricultural and industrial sectors over the past 20 years. Israel imports significant quantities of grain but is largely self-sufficient in other agricultural products. Cut diamonds, high-technology equipment, and agricultural products (fruits and vegetables) are the leading exports. Israel usually posts sizable current account deficits, which are covered by large transfer payments from abroad and by foreign loans. Roughly half of the government's external debt is owed to the US, which is its major source of economic and military aid. The influx of Jewish immigrants from the former USSR during the period 1989-99, coupled with the opening of new markets at the end of the Cold War, energized Israel's economy, which grew rapidly in the early 1990s; growth began moderating in 1996 when the government imposed tighter fiscal and monetary policies and the immigration bonus petered out. Growth was a strong 7.2% in 2000, but the bitter Israeli-Palestinian conflict, difficulties in the high-technology, construction, and tourist sectors, and fiscal austerity in the face of growing inflation led to small declines in GDP in 2001 and 2002.

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Tourism isnt the only industry buddy.

Here is a list of other industries: high-technology projects (including aviation, communications, computer-aided design and manufactures, medical electronics), wood and paper products, potash and phosphates, food, beverages, and tobacco, caustic soda, cement, diamond cutting

I see a lot of growth for Israel in the future. The only reason Israel needed the aid is because they have been under constant attack since the beginning and they have taken in millions of immigrants.

 

That isn't the way that weapons system works. That is like saying they should only fire 1 bullet from a machine gun. 3 rockets is a very normal useage. The whole outrage over this incident is typical media exaggeration.

 

The cost of America's pro-Israel policies is far more than simply the amount of aid we sent Israel directly (3 billion a year).

It must also include the amount we send to Arab nations so they keep good relations with Israel (Egypt, Jordan) which is a couple more billion dollars.

It needs to also include the amount we send the PLO to help rebuild the homes bulldozed by Israel, etc. (400m/yr as quoted by Franchise). And to support the international humanitarian efforts at refugee camps ringing Israel.

It must also include the amount of aid we have to pay for the reconstruction of victim states like Lebanon.

It must also include the amount of aid we send to prop up feudal dictatorships in the Middle East so that our pro-Israel stance don't translate into overtly hostile Arab policies.

It must also include the amount of damage we sustain from terrorism and the amount we pay still to prevent terrorism. (and i haven't even started with Afganistan and Iraq).

It must also include the amount we pay for under-the-table horse-trading with nations all over the world, necessary to keep ourselves from being censured in international bodies for our Middle East policies.

Our stance toward Israel, UNIQUE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, forms a fundamental pillar of our Middle East policy, and makes us, after Israel herself, the #1 enemy of Muslims the world over.

And so for all that. Haven't I as an America earned the right to ask "what has Israel done for me lately?"

 

Between 1972 and 2001, the United States cast its veto in the U.N. Security Council no less than 38 times to shield Israel from Council draft resolutions that condemned, deplored, denounced, affirmed, endorsed, called upon and urged Israel to obey the world body. What's more, EVERY SINGLE ONE of these votes saw America as the SOLE dissenter (i.e. 14-1 or X-1 with Y number of abstentions)! Is the entire world wrong? Are they all just a bunch of anti-semites? Or might there be a slight possibility that American policies are just a bit skewed?

America is neither doing the right thing nor the profitable thing with respect to Israel. The sad result is that Americans like you and me have to pay for it with our hard-earned money and worse, potentially our lives.

 

Franchise2001,

Since you're working through college (commendable feat by the way), I thought I'd put all this budget talk in perspective...

That's right! Just the aid that goes directly to Israel is sufficient to provide 30 times the size of that Perkins loan/grant.

 

Originally posted by Lil
The cost of America's pro-Israel policies is far more than simply the amount of aid we sent Israel directly (3 billion a year).

True.

It must also include the amount we send to Arab nations so they keep good relations with Israel (Egypt, Jordan) which is a couple more billion dollars.

Partially true.

With or without Israel, the middle east is critical to the US.

It needs to also include the amount we send the PLO to help rebuild the homes bulldozed by Israel, etc. (400m/yr as quoted by Franchise). And to support the international humanitarian efforts at refugee camps ringing Israel.

Israel is not the sole antagonist.

It must also include the amount of aid we have to pay for the reconstruction of victim states like Lebanon.

That's comical. A victim state?

Lebanon's Christian v Muslim civil war got nasty long before Israel became involved.

It must also include the amount of aid we send to prop up feudal dictatorships in the Middle East so that our pro-Israel stance don't translate into overtly hostile Arab policies.

Didn't you already mention this? Anyway, partly true, but again, OIL is a/the major issue for the US and the West in general.

As mentioned here by others, having a democratic ally in the region does provide benefits to the US. Having a nation with an impressive security apparatus in the region may certainly provide benefits to the US in the war on terror.
These may very well not exceed the costs to date, but in your biased presentations you fail to mention any benefit to the US.

It must also include the amount of damage we sustain from terrorism and the amount we pay still to prevent terrorism. (and i haven't even started with Afganistan and Iraq).

Nope.

The idiot obl did not mention the Palestinian cause for years, until he realized the political benefit. He just wanted us heathen out of Saudi Arabia. When did we go into Saudi Arabia? After Kuwait was invaided by a fellow Muslim nation. That had NOTHING to do with Israel. Our presence in the region provides a stabilising factor that benefits the global economy.

Also, would there be no fundamentalist Islamic movements if there was no Israel? Sure there would.

Are we more of a target because of Israel? For some of the terrorists, absolutely. But your's and others' ascertions that it is the sole cause is ludicrous. It's arguable how much of a cause it is. Hell, they still think they're fighting the crusades (where ironically, many Jews died fighting beside Muslims, if I recall).

We've been involved in the ME a long time, and with things unrelated to Israel. One instance stands out where the CIA started messing-around with Iran in 1952 and that led to a coup (of a democratically elected government) in 1953. Eisenhower felt this was needed by the US for 'strategic reasons'. But it's so easy to blame Israel for all the hatred against the US, eh?

It must also include the amount we pay for under-the-table horse-trading with nations all over the world, necessary to keep ourselves from being censured in international bodies for our Middle East policies.

This sounds like a little mind at work...gee, what else can I come up with?.

Do you have any links that support this apparent underground, world-wide economy?


Our stance toward Israel, UNIQUE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, forms a fundamental pillar of our Middle East policy, and makes us, after Israel herself, the #1 enemy of Muslims the world over.

And so for all that. Haven't I as an America earned the right to ask "what has Israel done for me lately?"

Odd. You claim that all terrorist actions against the US are because of our UNIQUE support of Israel, yet other nations, apparently non-supporters of Israel, are also targets of fundamentalist Islamic terrorists. Hmmm. Problem there?


And...the question is never do we stand alone, or will other hate us for our policies. That's either the question from one who lacks moral convictions...or is a wuss.

The question should be between what's right and wrong.

Is the ally acting properly? If not, help it act the appropriate way. Personally I think that Israel screws up in regards to several issues...the settlements for instance. Since we are integrally tied to the situation there, we should pressure Israel to do the right thing. We have the leverage to do so. Stop the money, and we don't and the whole, oil-rich region is destabilized further.

Abandoning an ally is not a good precendent, and it will not end the hatred against the US and the West in general.

(BTW, you must have a lot of friends if you ask them what the've done for you lately)