Israel is doing the right thing by killing Hamas leaders

It's a perfect example of how history repeats itself. Anti-semitism is growing stronger every day in Europe. And the growing sentiment of isolationism (what F.D. Khan wants) here in the US will only lead us to more death and destruction. Freezing all the assets of Hamas and Islamic Jihad would stop them from doing a lot of damage.

The arab world wants a land for peace deal. Israel wants peace for land. The so-called cease fire proved that Palestinians are not ready for peace.

 

Why don't you go back to class and get yourself an education. You are a fool and have never come up with one valid point or argument aside from the constant "anti-semitism" and "holocaust" arguments.

Get and education then talk to me kid, right now you're just wet behind the ears.

 

Like I said. I don't care about their problems as long as i'm not paying for that multi-missle attack that killed a donkey and some Palestinians. I care about the USA's reputation and the economic future of the nation, not about Israel and Palestine. They can kill each other for all I care. But you value Israeli interests more than you do US interests.

 

Wow, resorting to this kind of stuff isn't very adult-like now is it? I'm 22 and have shown more maturity than you can. I asked good questions about problems in the PA and you freaking wouldn't answer them. You just stated that "YOU DIDNT CARE."

I have come up with valid points and I guess you are too old and too stubborn to see the other side of the story. Compared to most of my friends and relatives, I am pretty moderate when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. However, with extremist posters like you and glynch, I am forced to take the opposite side.

By the way, instead of hiding behind a computer screen, why don't you come call me a fool to my face. I'll show you a good education.

 

Hahahahahaha.....

The reason I didn't respond to that article is because I don't care about the PA. We're not funding them. If i'm giving someone money (which I am) then I can sure as hell tell them what to do. And if that country keeps leeching of my tax dollars, then i'm going to be pissed about it. And you are the moderate one?? Haha...and I wonder why there is no settlement over there.

BTW, I'm 27, and don't make me laugh. Why don't you go back to your books. I had already started a successful financial company when I was 21.

 

Awww. Did I hurt your feelings?? I'm reeeaaallllly sorry.
You're right. Lets give even more money to Israel. After all, their fight is hurting their tourism, right?? I mean its not easy for a country with less than 10 million people to have hundreds of nuclear weapons. And we're mother goose that has pockets without end, so you're right! Give! Give it all!

Maybe when you start paying tax dollars kid you'll get upset at some of the things its wasted on. Idiot.

 

Actually we do fund the PA. Those funds are strictly controlled by the US Agency for International Development so thugs like Arafat don't have full control of it. 400 million dollars all go to economic aid. I would think, with someone so educated and mature, you would know this .

And for someone so knowledgable about finance, the aid towards Israel is so miniscule compared to the total expenditures of the US its laughable. The aid to Israel is about 3 billion dollars a year. This is 1.2 billion in economic aid and 1.8 billion in military aid. Israel has agreed that 75% of the military aid must be spent in the U.S. So, only $450 million is actually taken out of the U.S. As for loans given to Israel (which is many billions of dollars), those have always been paid off.

Now you tell me, 1.65 billion dollars a year is out of the U.S. and this is just too much money to be "handing out." THE TOTAL EXPENDITURES A YEAR(found in the a recent world fact book) IS 2.052 TRILLION DOLLARS.

Lets work out the percentages here. That means that out of all the expenses that the US has. The aid to Israel is .0804% (THATS RIGHT.. NOT EVEN A TENTH OF 1%) of all the US expenses. This number is decreasing every year until the aid is 0. Ofcourse, loans will still be given. I'd say that the aid is still a positive because by lending this aid, we have prevented an onslaught of bloodthirsty countries.

 

Wow, I really struck a nerve. I do pay tax dollars moron. I starting working for a construction company when I was 18. Worked in sales from the ages of 19-21. Now I manage a doctor's office. All of this while going to school and paying for it out of my own pocket. Looks like we are down to name calling now. So today, I AM AN IDIOT AND A FOOL!!! SWEET

 

The Cost of Israel to U.S. Taxpayers

How much is Israel costing the U.S. in 1993? What has been the total cost of Israel to the U. S. taxpayer since its establishment in 1948? These are the two most frequently asked questions by readers of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs.

There is no single answer to either question because there are many different ways to calculate these costs. For those who would minimize the visible cost of Israel to U.S. taxpayers, Congress designs legislation that makes U.S. military equipment available to Israel, but keeps the cost outside the military assistance budget. Similarly, some economic grants appear outside the foreign assistance budget.

In the budget for the current 1993 fiscal year are U.S. grants for $1.8 billion in military aid and $1.2 billion in economic aid to Israel. In addition, there are special grants of various kinds totaling $91 million. This means that $3.091 billion has been added to the already staggering federal deficit in this fiscal year.

This total does not include items such as $700 million for the "drawdown" of U.S. weapons from Europe and their transfer to Israel, the creation of a $300 million U.S. weapons stockpile in Israel and contributions of fuel tanks and oil to fill them for a $ 180 million petroleum reserve in Israel.

These items total an off-budget $1.18 billion. The rationale for omitting these items from the budget is that they nominally remain U.S. property, although it is certain that this country will never see them again. These items bring this year's outlay past the $4 billion mark to $4,271,000,000.

Chairman Lee H. Hamilton of the subcommittee on Europe and the Middle East of the House Foreign Affairs Committee also notes that the sleight-of-hand practice whereby Israel receives its full annual grant at the beginning of each fiscal year, instead of quarterly, as do all other recipient countries, costs the Treasury more than $50 million in interest.

With the U.S. budget greatly out of balance, grants-in-aid for Israel are added to the federal debt each year instead of being paid off on a current basis. The U.S. Treasury then must pay compound interest on the cumulative grants (interest both on the unpaid principal and on the unpaid back interest) until such time as the national debt is liquidated. Over the years, the compound interest on the U.S. debt is far greater than the principal itself, a proposition that is readily understood by every homeowner with a mortgage.

By the end of FY 1992, the total of grants that had been extended to Israel since 1951 was $44.8 billion. Adding compound interest calculated at the prevailing interest rate for each of the past years brings that to a total of $80 billion added to the national debt. This figure does not include the many off-budget items such as the $1.18 billion cited above for 1993. This year's interest on the $80 billion will amount to $5 billion at last year's interest rates, an amount greater than this year's on-budget grant of $3.091 billion. The $5 billion is included in the federal budget in the item "interest outlay." Annual compound interest due to grants to Israel has been greater than the annual grant to Israel since 1988.

There is also the practical question as to what the U.S. gains for its substantial aid to Israel every year. Most of the economic aid granted to Israel every year is used to pay back to the U. S. Treasury the interest and payments due on principal for loans prior to 1974 (as distinguished from grants). This forgiveness of loans is provided for under the terms of the Cranston amendment, which has been attached to each year's grant package since 1984. In effect, the Cranston amendment provides a mechanism for the incremental conversion of all past U.S government loans to Israel into outright grants.

The military grants are mostly, but not completely, expended on U. S. weaponry. Some of the money is earmarked for the Israelis to buy military hardware and services from themselves. Israel's public relations people argue that since the bulk of U.S. military aid is spent by Israel to purchase U.S. weapons, the cost to the U.S. taxpayer is nothing. This is as absurd as saying that a merchant loses nothing by giving away instead of selling the store's merchandise to its customers.

The Loan Guarantees

In addition to the grants-in-aid, Israel has asked the United States to guarantee $10 billion in private loans to Israel over the next five years. As reported in the Washington Report's February 1993 issue, the agreement covering the first installment of $2 billion of the loan guarantees was signed by President Bush in January.

Unlike agreements of this kind with all other countries receiving loan guarantees, the document signed with Israel does not require U.S. approval of individual projects to be financed under the loans, thus giving the Israeli government the opportunity to spend the money in any way it chooses. This makes a dead letter of the requirement passed by Congress that the loan money not be expended for projects in the occupied territories. This is exactly what happened in the case of $400 million in loan guarantees for housing for Russian immigrants extended by the U.S. to Israel two years ago.

The money borrowed by Israel under the U. S. guarantees promises to be little more than a gigantic slush fund in the hands of the leading Israeli politicians for their partisan interests. When, after 10 years, Israel is forced to begin paying back the principal on these loans, it is utterly predictable that Israel will default, making the U.S. government liable for the entire amount of the loans, or that Israel will request a further increase in U.S. government aid in order to cover repayment of loans obtained under U.S. Loan guarantees. Either way, this adds an additional $2 billion to the U.S. taxpayer liability for fiscal 1993.

To summarize, the cost of on-budget aid to Israel from 1951 through 1992 is $44.8 billion. Adding compound interest for rates prevailing in each of the 42 years involved, the cost becomes $80 billion. Additional 1993 costs of more than $11 billion are summarized in the accompanying box.

========================================


Even your figures state that .08% of our budget goes towards a country with 6.5 million people??? That is insane. In just the 3 billion in handouts, that is almost $500 to everyone in that country annually??? Till 1992 we've paid 44.8 billion?? And the opportunity cost was $80 billion dollars!! I'm sure till date its over 60 billion as we increased aid during the Clinton Administration.

That country is only twice the size of Houston's population yet it recieves 3 billion annually from my pocket?? Plus the loan payments and other handouts listed above. If you think this is correct from the US standpoint, then you are either a liar, a traitor or a fool.

 

Great, you're a secretary. Congratulations. My taxes probably carry your cost to society as well. Now not only do I carry your Israeli brethren, but I carry you. Don't forget to write me a thank you letter.

 

Nice, A LIAR AND A TRAITOR NOW! You are good at this name calling stuff. You should look into a career in pro-wrestling.

You just dont get it do you? WE SPEND 2.052 TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. A FEW BILLION DOLLARS IS LAUGHABLE. Israel gets aid for a few reasons. One, it is a democracy unlike the majority of it's neighbors. Two, because of powerful lobbying by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). And lastly, Israel and the US have been friends since the creation of Israel since 1948. Need Proof?

1948
America Recognizes Israel
A quarter-century after congress's 1922 resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish homeland, Members of Congress speak out to buttress President Truman's decision to recognize the Jewish State. This begins consistent Congressional
support for Israel.

1951
Aid To Resettle
Holocaust Refugees
Congress approves the first aid package to Israel, $65 million to help Israel take in Holocaust survivors and endangered Jews from Arab lands. Within 3 years, Israel's 650,000 Jews absorb 600,000 refugees from Europe and the Arab nations.

1955
Breaking The Ban on
Arms To Israel
One-third of the House petitions the Eisenhower Administration to break its arms embargo of Israel and sell defensive weapons to the Jewish State. Even with continuing Congressional urging, the embargo does not end until 1962. The United States sells hundreds of millions of dollars in weaponry to Arab states
during these years.

1956
The Sinai Campaign
Responding to years of Egyptian provocation, Israeli forces capture most of the Sinai. The Administration threatens UN sanctions if Israel does not withdraw. Congressional leaders stand courageously with Israel against the one-sided pressure, as they do consistently throughout
Israel's history.

1962
Congress Supports Direct Negotiations
The Administration supports UN condemnation of Israel's retaliation against Syrian attacks on civilians. However, 232 Members of Congress affirm Israel's insistence on direct negotiations with her enemies. The State Department does not adopt this policy until 1979.

1965
Battling The Arab Boycott
Administration opposition weakens the first legislation compelling U.S. companies to reject the Arab Boycott of Israel. Continuing congressional pressure over the years eventually secures passage in 1977 of comprehensive anti-boycott legislation.

1967
The Six-Day War
Egypt's President Nasser leads 6 Arab armies in war against Israel. 365 Members of Congress polled oppose Israeli withdrawal without peace commitments. (this sounds familiar doesnt it?)

1968
Maintaining Deterrent Strength
When the Arab League rejects Israel's peace offer, Congress presses the Administration to sell Phantom jets to Israel. President Johnson recognizes the need for Israel to maintain her deterrent strength in the face of Arab intransigence, and accedes.

1968
Congress Commits to "Qualitative Edge"
The principle of preserving Israel's "qualitative edge" through military aid and cooperation grows into a firm Congressional commitment over the next 30 years.

1970
Rogers' Plan Rejected
70 Senators and 280 Representatives reject Secretary of State Rogers' peace plan, which calls for Israel's unilateral withdrawal without any Arab peace commitments.

1973
The Yom Kippur War
71 Senators and 269 Representatives expedite a $2.2 billion emergency aid package to Israel, which President Nixon approves. This is the first time the United States provides an outright grant of arms to Israel.

1974
Congress Asserts Control
of Arms Sales
Congress secures authority to block military sales, forcing either the modification or the withdrawal of major arms sales. Over the next 24 years, Administrations modify or withdraw billings in arms sales to Arab states, helping to maintain Israel's qualitative edge.

1974
The Law To "Let Our People Go"
76 Senators and 288 Representatives co-sponsor landmark legislation effectively denying the Soviet Union trading privileges until it allows its Jewish citizens to emigrate. More than 1 million Jews ultimately emigrate to freedom.

1975
Congress Contains
Arms Sales to Jordan
Congressional opposition forces the Administration to agree that Hawk missiles sold to Jordan be placed in concrete silos targeted away from Israel. A decade later, Congressional disapproval persuades the Administration to withdraw an even larger weapons sale to Jordan.

1975
Ford "Reassessment" Refuted
Israel's refusal to unilaterally withdraw from the Sinai prompts President Ford to call for a reassessment of the U.S.-Israel relationship. 76 Senators reaffirm the special bond.

1979
Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty
For two and a half decades, scores of resolutions, letters, and legislative language call for direct negotiations in the Middle East. Congress's vision is finally vindicated at Camp David, where peace is achieved through face-to-face talks.

1980
Aid To Israel
Recognizing the risks Israel took for peace at Camp David and the persistence of the Arab military threat. Congress approves a $4.9 billion aid and loan package. From 1985 on, Congress annually provides Israel $3 billion in all grant aid. This assistance evolves into one of the most important symbols of the strength
of the U.S. Israel ties

1980
Battling UN Bias
From the mid-1970s on, Congress increasingly takes the lead in battling anti-Israel bias in the UN. In scores of resolutions and legislative initiatives Congress counters threats to expel Israel, challenges the elevation of PLO status, and pressures two Administrations to reject resolutions declaring eastern Jerusalem an occupied territory.

1981
AWACS Sale To Saudis
Despite strong Congressional opposition, AWACS planes are sold to Saudi Arabia. In future years, however, Congressional opposition leads to the withdrawal of arms packages to the desert kingdom, and deters countless others from even being presented.

1982
Congress Resists
Administration Aid Cut
In the wake of the war in Lebanon, the Administration suspends the sale of F-16 planes to Israel and tries to cut aid. The Senate responds by increasing military aid grants by $225 million sending a strong message of its support for Israel. Congress defeats every successive attempt to the assistance to Israel to policy differences.

1983
Strategic Cooperation Endorsed
Israel, for 35 years excluded as a strategic U.S. partner for fear of provoking Arab wrath, is finally recognized as a strategic asset in a landmark Memorandum of Understanding in future years. Congress expands this relationship from recognizing Israel as a major non-NATO ally to funding an array of U.S. Israel joint research and defense programs in the anti-ballistic
missile arena.

 

1984
Turning The Tide On Terror
After a decade and a half of unmitigated PLO horror, Congress passes legislation that precludes dialogue with the PLO unless and until the PLO renounces terrorism. In future initiatives. Congress acts to close the PLO office, denies Arafat an American visa, provides the United States with the legal authority to prosecute terrorists, and restricts U.S. dealings with nations supporting terror.

1985
Emergency Economic Aid
400% inflation and spiraling debt accrued over 5 wars brings Israel to economic crisis. Congress approves a $1.5 billion emergency aid package, restoring order to Israel. Within a decade, Israel develops into one of worlds strongest
emerging economies.

1985
Precedent-Setting
Free Trade Agreement
Congress overwhelmingly approves the U.S. Israel Free Trade Agreement. The first such treaty between America and another nation, it provides the impetus for explosive growth in trade and investment and sets a precedent for future agreements between the United States and other nations.

1987
Congress Condemns
Zionism = Racism Resolution
Of the hundreds of UN resolutions attacking Israel, none is as obscene as the 1975 resolution equating Zionism with racism. In one of many measures, Congress passes legislation condemning
the UN resolution.

1987
Joint R&D Against Missiles
In a far-reaching joint research and development program with Israel, Congress provides funding for the Arrow anti-ballistic missile (ABM) system, the first such system to be successfully tested. Israel eventually becomes America's most important partner in ABM cooperation.

1989
Insistence On
PLO Compliance
When Arafat claims to renounce terrorism in a speech to the UN in Geneva, Congress insists that PLO deeds must match his words. This process for monitoring and reporting PLO actions becomes the basis for U.S. dealings with the PLO.

1989
Peace Not Pressure
95 Senators resist intense Administration pressure for unilateral Israeli concessions and urge Secretary of State Baker to support Israel's peace efforts.

1991
Emergency Military Assistance
Israel endures 39 Iraqi missile attacks during the Gulf War without retaliating Congress approves $650 million in emergency assistance to Israel.

1992
Landmark Loan Guarantees
Congress approves $10 billion in loan guarantees to lighten Israel's extraordinary financial strain of resettling 600,000 refugees from the former Soviet Union and Ethiopia. In the process. Congress fights Administration efforts to link this humanitarian effort to a halt in West Bank construction.

1992
Reining Rogue Nations
Landmark legislation authorizes sanctions on companies that provide either Iran or Iraq with the technology to develop unconventional warfare systems.
The containment or dangerous despots becomes a Congressional priority.

1993
Oslo Peace Accords
Congress praises the Israeli-Palestinian agreement and links Palestinian aid and diplomatic relations to fulfillment of
their peace commitments.

1993
U.S.-Israel
Science & Technology Commission
This binational commission encourages development of a U.S.-Israel technological base for the 21st century. Coupled with similar programs in agriculture and applied sciences, U.S.-Israel joint efforts now top hundreds a year.

1995
Jerusalem Embassy
Relocation Act
A decade after is first hearings on the issue, Congress passes legislation recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital and calling for the American Embassy's relocation. Administration implementation requires continuing Congressional pressure.

1996
Untying The Russia-Iran Knot
Congress moves to sanction foreign countries that invest in Iran's energy sector, or sell Iran nuclear or missile technology.

1996
Joining Israel In
The Fight Against Terror
Congress agrees to provide $100 million in anti-terrorism assistance to Israel. Members of Congress also signed letters urging the Palestinian Authority to take more serious steps against terrorism.

1999
Reshaping Foreign Aid
Backing Israel’s unprecedented offer to restructure its foreign aid, Congress passes the first installment of a ten-year plan to phase out Israel’s economic assistance while boosting its military aid.

1999
Supporting the Peace Process
Congress demonstrates its ongoing support for the peace process by providing $1.9 billion to help Israel and her partners in peace implement the 1998 Wye River accord.

2000
Halting the Technology
Flow to Iran
To help curb the flow of illicit weapons technology to Iran, Congress passes the Iran Nonproliferation Act, authorizing sanctions against organizations that provide technology for building missiles or weapons of mass destruction to Tehran.

2000
Commending Israel’s
Lebanon Withdrawal
In the aftermath of Israel’s withdrawal from southern Lebanon, Congress overwhelmingly passes a resolution supporting Israel’s decision and pledges to seek ways to help ease Israel’s military burden along its northern border.

2000
Condemning Palestinian Violence
When Palestinian violence erupts despite the Israeli government’s unprecedented peace proposals, Congress sends a strong message of solidarity with the people of Israel while condemning the Palestinian leadership for resorting to violence. 365 members of the House and 96 Senators urge the Clinton administration to stand by Israel and press Yasir Arafat to end the violence.

2000
Deploying First Missile
Defense System
Decades of cooperation between the United States and Israel to jointly develop missile defenses result in Israel’s deployment of the first unit of the Arrow missile defense system. Israel is the only country in the world to have a functioning defense against enemy missiles.

-----------------------------------

All of this Pre-Intifada, pre-9/11 shows that I am no traitor. If I am a traitor, then you can call Congress traitors for lending such aid. I do not forget the videos of Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9/11. Israel will continue to get aid whether you like it or not. As for your financial reasons for not supporting them, I have proven you wrong.

By the way, the day I graduate is the day I get hired. It's nice having good jewish and non-jewish friends with big companies.

 

Here take 3 Billion dollars a year. Will you be my friend??

Uhh....Sure...I'm done here. Your examples have nothing to do with my arguments. Your comments about Palestinians dancing after 9/11 shows that Israel's actions are making the US look bad and growing anti-US hate. Which I will not stand for.

Regardless of whether its because of AIPAC or just lunacy, this country doesn't deserve this handout. It is leeching off of our country to sustain its inefficient economy.

 

You could say the same for Afghanistan as well being a beachhead. We will see what type of government Iraq has. Until then, Israel will receive aid because its not only democratic, but because it's an ally. The day Israel is not threatened by outsiders, is the day it no longer needs the qualitative edge.

Until then, lets play blow up the donkey cart!

 

BTW ...Don't you realize that 90% of your examples are supporting my ideas that have been and continue to give handouts and support Israel??

Hahaha....Thats Laughable. What you call cooperation, I call a handout.

These are some of your examples from your Cooperation:

1985
Emergency Economic Aid
400% inflation and spiraling debt accrued over 5 wars brings Israel to economic crisis. Congress approves a $1.5 billion emergency aid package, restoring order to Israel. Within a decade, Israel develops into one of worlds strongest
emerging economies.

UUUHHHHHH......HANDOUT!!!


1985
Precedent-Setting
Free Trade Agreement
Congress overwhelmingly approves the U.S. Israel Free Trade Agreement. The first such treaty between America and another nation, it provides the impetus for explosive growth in trade and investment and sets a precedent for future agreements between the United States and other nations.

Free Trade for Israel?? UUUHHHHHH......HANDOUT!!!


1987
Joint R&D Against Missiles
In a far-reaching joint research and development program with Israel, Congress provides funding for the Arrow anti-ballistic missile (ABM) system, the first such system to be successfully tested. Israel eventually becomes America's most important partner in ABM cooperation.

UUUHHHHHH......HANDOUT!!! Handout of Miliatry Technology


1991
Emergency Military Assistance
Israel endures 39 Iraqi missile attacks during the Gulf War without retaliating Congress approves $650 million in emergency assistance to Israel.

UUUHHHHHH......HANDOUT!!!

1992
Landmark Loan Guarantees
Congress approves $10 billion in loan guarantees to lighten Israel's extraordinary financial strain of resettling 600,000 refugees from the former Soviet Union and Ethiopia. In the process. Congress fights Administration efforts to link this humanitarian effort to a halt in West Bank construction.

UUUHHHHHH......HANDOUT!!!



1996
Joining Israel In
The Fight Against Terror
Congress agrees to provide $100 million in anti-terrorism assistance to Israel. Members of Congress also signed letters urging the Palestinian Authority to take more serious steps against terrorism.

UUUHHHHHH......HANDOUT!!!

1999
Supporting the Peace Process
Congress demonstrates its ongoing support for the peace process by providing $1.9 billion to help Israel and her partners in peace implement the 1998 Wye River accord.

UUUHHHHHH......HANDOUT!!!

2000
Commending Israel’s
Lebanon Withdrawal
In the aftermath of Israel’s withdrawal from southern Lebanon, Congress overwhelmingly passes a resolution supporting Israel’s decision and pledges to seek ways to help ease Israel’s military burden along its northern border.

UUUHHHHHH......HANDOUT!!!


2000
Deploying First Missile
Defense System
Decades of cooperation between the United States and Israel to jointly develop missile defenses result in Israel’s deployment of the first unit of the Arrow missile defense system. Israel is the only country in the world to have a functioning defense against enemy missiles.

UUUHHHHHH......HANDOUT!!!




Tell your country to quit leeching off of mine please. Thank you.


Goodbye.

 

Why dont you move to France and b**** about it. The United States is my country, no doubt about it, but I care for Israel like millions of christians do.

 

Franchise2001,

You keep telling me problems with Israel like we're automatically supposed to be responsible for their problems.

Let me tell you something? Everyones got problems. Rwanda has problems, Indonesia has problems, Colombia has problems, El Salvador has problems. You're like a welfare addict that says I can't find a job and pay my bills so the US government has to.

Bull****.

 

Would you like some cheese with your wine?

.08%.. nuff said

 

Damn, looks like I'm going to have to pull up a lawn chair and watch this battle of the titans. Anybody got a cold one?