The ruling conservative factions in both Israel and Palestine views the other side as subhuman. And when one side kills the other, you see a massive influx of support for retaliation. Understandable but devastating all the same.
PM Rabin was killed by his own people for trying to bring this conflict to an end and endorsing a two state solution.
I’m it sure politically or strategically it’s possible for the US to actually make peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
All these people living comfortable suburban lives which btw many Israalis citizens if not most live just dismissing how brains are wired from being raised in a open air prison where 15 percent of the kids there experienced severe trauma at the level of seeing their childhood home leveled or seeing a family member murdered by dropped ordanance or living in constant fear of the sky on top of all the material conditions like lack of quality education, economic opportunities etc. How many times do people like you need to learn that entities like Hamas are INEVITABLE in these situations. How many Black South Africans were labeled violent savage terrorists by western populations during Boer dominance? I know what 7 months in a underdeveloped battle zone does to one's brain even though my side had the full might of NATO air support on our side. Ove seen it's effects on my former peers and myself. I can't imagine being born into that environment and how one's brain becomes wired after that. Gaza City is crammed full of 14-20 year olds with severe PTSD.
Rabin talked about “the peace of the brave” that it would take courage for both Israelis and Palestinians to make peace by moving beyond the hatred and anger. For that he was assasinated by a Jewish extremist. At the same time Arafat lacked both the moral courage and standing to convince the Palestinians to reject extremism and violence. Since then there are no leaders in either side that appear close to being willing or able to make peace.
The conflict can end when Israel and Palestine becomes a unified state and it endorses multi-culturalism and secularism. Or when one side genocides or exiles the other. Or when a major power annexes the region as has happened countless times before.
The United States didn't have a creed of exterminating the Native Americans like Hamas. They had a creed of manifest Destiny like Isreal has with that region and it pretty much means the same thing but just add a tad bit of euphemism. Genocide is genocide. And the concept of manifest Destiny made many Americans of the time find pleasure in exterminating native American camps just like many Israalis find pleasure in dropping ordinance on a city with 30000 people per square mile.
The United States didn't have a creed of experiencing the Native Americans like Hamas. They had a creed of manifest Destiny like Isreal has with that region. Genocide is genocide. Human brains aren't wired for that. In a way I find the Palestinian situation hopeless in the sense you have many damaged minds that simply can't be hand waived by "hey if they all just magically cure their PTSD, they can secularized and coexist". You trapped a bunch of humans like animals .. what do they become?
Yes I agree that conditions in Gaza and the West Bank are deplorable and that has to do with Israelis policy of collective punishment. I even said it was immoral. The question I have back to you is do you think what Hamas is doing is actually going to make things better for the people in Gaza? or is it more likely going to lead to the deaths of many more in Gaza? You frequently like to talk e about things as “normative” and that it is to be expected that people will be angry and hateful. Yes that is certainly part of human makeup. That path though isn’t inevitable. You cite South Africa yet there was a peaceful end to Apartheid. It came because Mandela and DeKlerk understood that the cycle of violence had to be stopped. Apartheid had to end but not in that way that would’ve turned South Africa into Zimbabwe. Another example is Northern Ireland. Many Catholics and their supporters justified the actions of the IRA the same way as you do. That centuries of political and economic control at the hands of the British and Protestants made violence inevitable and even justified. Both sides thought realized that a violent solution was ultimately self defeating and were willing to compromise. Since then Northern Ireland has not only been peaceful Belfast has economically boomed. There are other pathways than violence even in the most intractable of conflicts. It does take Rabat’s peace of the brave though. For the Palestinians and Israelis though there aren’t leaders like Raban anymore.
Sen. Tommy Tuberville won't lift his military blockade amid Israel-Hamas conflict WASHINGTON — The office of Sen. Tommy Tuberville, R-Ala., said he isn’t backing down on his monthslong blockade on hundreds of military promotions, even amid Hamas’ deadly attack on Israel, a close U.S ally. “The Pentagon clearly thinks forcing taxpayers to facilitate abortion is more important than confirming their top nominees without a vote. They could end this situation TODAY by dropping their illegal and immoral policy and get everyone confirmed rapidly, but they refuse,” Tuberville spokesperson Steve Stafford said in a statement to NBC News. “If the Biden administration wants their nominees confirmed then Senate Democrats can do what Coach just did in September and file a cloture petition to force a vote.” The news was first reported by Politico. “Coach" refers to Tuberville’s past as a college football coach. Rest: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna119401
Mandela was literally imprisoned and labeled a terrorist and was demanded to condemn all violence. Guess what he was imprisoned still which means he refused to condemn anything. He refused to condemn any actions of South Africans because he understood the same thing that MLK did that violence where he it's immoral or not is inevitable if given certain conditions on the ground are met. This is just a statement of fact. People like you want to have this magical world were humans can instantly drop their child good PTSD and trauma. That is what many here expects to happen for Palestinians. You see that in the "both sides just need to settle things". Ya that's not how **** works. Eventually the Boer government was no longer being supported by the intentional community. Boycotting, divestment etc worked. And why would you even ask if I think the actions of Hamas help? If you know my approach here in the sense my analysis isn't normative, why even ask that question?
Israel is a modern conventional military with the most modern equipment on the planet vs a insurgency and unconventional force. I don't think American military readiness has any effect on Israel's ability to level Gaza. This is irrelevant here. Tommy Tuberville is one of the dumbest politicians in American history. It that's irrelevant.
So far the Israeli response has been typical: air strikes and cutting off supplies to Gaza. If you can’t see both sides of this conflict, open your eyes.
I see a power dynamic of a modern military force vs a group of people ocing in a open air prison. Let's put it this way, when **** hits the fan in a Israeli city vs Gaza City, Israeli citizens have instant access to half of European countries without a need for a visa and even in the US it's a formality and Israeli citizens get instant access to travel here to the US. So these people have instant access to safe modern developed areas if **** hits the fan. Palestinians have to wait on average of 2 years to get accepted to travel to Europe or America. It's not that I can't understand the rage of Israalis citizens. It's that I'm not as sympathetic to their rage as Palestine because of this factor and many others.
Probably not. I'm just making a point that the story has no relevance to IDF preparedness to do whatever the **** they do.
