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Israel Goes To War with Hamas 2023

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by astros123, Oct 6, 2023.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    The “rules of war” are generally things like the Geneva Convention and The Hague Conventions.
    Israel was a signatory to the 4th Geneva conventions but has taken the position that
    It doesn’t apply to their actions in Gaza or the West Bank.

    Related the USSR was a signatory to the Geneva conventions but Putin has said that Russia withdrew from the provision on the provision for the commission on protection of civilians.
     
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  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    On targeting civilians targets where military / insurgents are also at the U.S. and other Western militaries have done so too. And have bombed Al Qeada and ISIS targets in civilian areas.

    Palestinian groups too have justified bombing civilian targets in Israel arguing that IDF soldiers intermingle with Israeli civilians and do so in uniform. So they are attacking military targets that happen to be mixed with civilians. The IRA made the same argument too regarding some Of their bombings.
     
  3. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4294174-bernie-sanders-says-he-hopes-israel-rids-of-netanyahu/
    Bernie Sanders says he hopes Israel rids of Netanyahu
    BY LAUREN SFORZA - 11/05/23 9:57 AM ET

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) railed against the government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday, saying that he hopes Israel removes him as their leader.

    “This is a horrendously complex issue,” Sanders said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “You got a right wing government in Israel, which is racist. And the people by the way, but the good news is last poll, I saw only 18 percent of the people of Israel want Netanyahu to stay in office. I hope they get rid of him. I hope they put in a government, which understands the severity of the crisis.”

    Sanders has been outspoken about preventing civilian deaths in the ongoing fighting between Israel and Hamas — a militant group that launched a deadly surprise attack on Israel on Oct. 7, prompting Israel to declare war on the organization. He again urged Israel to halt the bombing on Gaza, saying that there must be a “better way” to eliminate Hamas, which the United States designates as a terrorist organization.

    “But there got to be a better way than killing thousands of men, women and children. So once again, the immediate concern is you gotta have a pause in the bombing. You got to take care of immediate disaster,” Sanders said.

    He also said that Netanyahu’s government is “trying to make it impossible for a two-state solution” in the West Bank.

    Secretary of State Antony Blinken was in Israel on Friday to press Netanyahu to agree to a “humanitarian pause” in the fighting to allow for aid to get into the enclave, which Israel has bombarded with airstrikes in its effort to eliminate Hamas. Netanyahu, however, resisted the call.

    The Gaza Health Ministry said that the Palestinian death toll reached 9,700 as of Sunday, including thousands more injured. More than 1,400 Israels were killed in the Oct. 7 attack. Hamas also took more than 200 people as hostages, the majority of which it is still holding.
     
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  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member
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    You don't understand how Russia is playing it's hand. Before the Ukraine war, Netanyahu saw Putin as a personal friend. Russia was against terrorism ever since it was a victim of a major terrorist attack. Ukraine war changed its short term calculus but don't think Russia is truly allied to Hamas. Russia wants greater influence in the region and a distraction from Ukraine - a conflict here draws attention (and hopefully dollars) away from Ukraine. But bigger picture Russia supports a two state solution and would love to play a role in it.
     
  5. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    I'm sorry but I never said hamas was Putin long term friend? I simply said putin is using HAMAS to distract america from ukraine and deplete the weapons we were going give to ukraine to Israel. Putin doesn't care about Israel or hamas but he cares about ukraine. He wants ukraine.

    This is why your original point of sending UN peace keeping forces to Gaza to root out hamas is funny. Russia and China LOVE that the usa is distracted and we aren't focing on indo pacific and ukraine. We have 2 carriers in the middle-east instead of focusing on indo pacific.

    The only way was Israel was going remove hamas is doing it themselves. I don't agree with the way they're going about it but war sucks and hamas should've have played games with the most right wing government Israel ever had.
     
  6. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    It isn't missing at all. Clearly the IDF believes this is not excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage. Which really should be obvious, because all Hamas targets are hidden among the civilian population. If they had the option of 20 military bases where they could destroy Hamas weapons, vehicles, and leadership, but there was one guy standing on the roof of a hospital with some binoculars and a radio serving as a lookout, you cannot blow up the hospital to kill the one guy. That isn't the case in Gaza. All of the military targets are hidden in civilian targets. The only way not to hit civilians is to let Hamas act with impunity.
    Yes, and it was done.
    Maybe they should ask Hamas to do the calculation.
    That's fine, but then they have to accept the consequences of their actions.
    This is true. The Israelis cannot line up the first 1500 residents of Gaza they find and rape, torture, and murder them. They have to actually strike military targets, which is what they are doing.
     
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Why is Israel allowed to be the only Apartheid country on earth?
     
  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Why is this surprising? Most of the world believes that Israel has repeatedly violated the human rights of Palestinians.

    Also, supporting Palestinians and their fight for true statehood doesn't mean supporting Hamas.
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I'd also like to ask anyone who thinks that the Israeli government's goal is to "end hamas" if the bombing campaigns increased the amount of Gazans teens that hate Israel with a burning passion or decreased the amount of Gazan teens that hate Israel with a burning passion? Maybe they decreased the number of Gazan kids who hate Israel from the sheer amount of kids the idf has killed. Maybe that's their way of ending Hamas. By ending all the potential recruits of hamas?
     
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  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    This brings up an interesting point and one that isn't discussed often.

    There is little doubt that the values of the West and especially those that are progressive, are more in line with Israel.

    However, someone cannot like or agree with the values and even aims of another group, like in this case, the Palestinians and still believe that Israel has been oppressive and violated the human rights of Palestinians.

    Most of the protestors are well aware that the extreme positions of Abrahamic religions, especially Islam are not progressive and in many ways are oppressive - indeed, many of these same protesters would be protesting against any efforts to make Islam a strong part of the US or Western culture.

    For example - I acknowledge that Israel has been inhumane and less than truthful in their handling of Palestine. I also acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist organization that is very much like one the USA spent 20 years fighting. However, when it comes to Israel v. Palestine, on the issue of statehood, I favor Palestine........ but I also would have no desire breaking bread with many of those that are in Palestine........ not all, but many.
     
  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    It it is hard, because the USA did the same thing that Israel is in the process of doing........ and other nations have as well. Having said that, the Israeli government current is rather conservative, and has taken the position in private and at times in public, that they do NOT want a two-state solution. So, developing an entire new generation of terrorists can help cause the type of chaos that they want....... and it also opens up the chance for further settlements in Gaza........ there are no guarantees that the Israeli's allow those Gazans to return to the rubble. There is also a very HIGH chance that Gaza going forward is a completely occupied area that is even more controlled by the Israeli's.
     
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  12. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    Polish Misinformation Using a Hungarian Recipe: The Curious Case of Visegrád 24
    The popular Visegrád 24 Twitter account pretends to be a news agency, but just repackages material with a conservative spin
    11 January 2023


    Iván László Nagy
    Marcin Król Fellow

    The Visegrád 24 Twitter account has rapidly grown in popularity, but their motivation and funding are far from transparent. While capitalising on Western support for Ukraine, the owners are building a brand to “Make Europe Great Again”, exporting a more successful Polish model initially tested by Viktor Orbán.

    The Hungarian attempts failed, but the plan stayed alive in Poland: in just two years, Visegrád 24 has grown into one of the largest Central Eastern European information operations in English – despite its total anonymity, opaque funding structure, having no website, lack of original content and with dubious links to the Polish government.

    Visegrád 24 Gains Notoriety

    From a Hungarian perspective, it is no longer surprising to find a news site has ties to the government, let alone one that spreads illiberal narratives with taxpayers’ money, like in the case of state media. However, this practice has not been widely adopted by Viktor Orbán’s international allies – and this is exactly why, from a democratic standpoint, the Polish attempts to do so at an international level seem daunting at a time when there is an ongoing war in the region.

    On 31 October 2022, the Polish chancellery allocated 1.4 million PLN (roughly 300 thousand EUR) from the budget reserve for a leisure and health NGO called Action-Life Foundation to implement a public task titled Visegrád 24, a decision signed off by Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki without further explanation.

    The name might ring a bell, as for the past two years, social media profiles under the same name have gathered hundreds of thousands of followers by aggregating news from the Central Eastern European region, nowadays focused mostly on the war in Ukraine.

    However, a sports NGO receiving state funds for a news site is only one of the many dubious chapters in Visegrád 24’s story.

    The page claims to aggregate and curate news, politics, current affairs, history and culture from Central and Eastern Europe. It first appeared on Twitter in January 2020, gaining 324,000 followers to date, as well as an audience of 153,000 on TikTok and 7,000 on both Facebook and Instagram. However, unlike other regional sites like Visegrad Insight, which produces original, English-language analytical content, Visegrád 24 creates virtually no original material; it relies solely on re-sharing and re-posting information, and its website, Visegrád24.org serves only as a donation page for the unnamed authors.

    Full article here:
    https://visegradinsight.eu/polish-m...arian-recipe-the-curious-case-of-visegrad-24/
     
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  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I always find it odd that Zionists think that this will move people or is really relevant.

    There are a lot of cultures and people without a physical nation.

    One I can think off of the top of my head is Assyrians - there is no Assyria anymore, and they were in that same region .... and the Assyrians existed 1,000 years before the Israeli's.
     
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  14. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    So what is that supposed to mean? That it would now be ok to expel 7 million people from Israel?
     
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  15. Nook

    Nook Member

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    It means that the fact there is only one Jewish nation holds no relevance to many people - as there are a number of other groups that lack their own nation.

    No - it would be unethical to expel 7 million Jews from Israel. I think it was a massive mistake of the West to found Israel, but we are past that point. At this point the issue is over Gaza and the WestBank. I do believe that the WestBank should be completely detached from Israel, and it should be a separate nation that is completely self-ruling.
     
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  16. Commodore

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  17. AkeemTheDreem86

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    Shall we agree to a definition of an apartheid country before I debunk this lie?
     
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  18. AkeemTheDreem86

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    Perhaps the Palestinians should stop declining a two-state solution.
     
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  19. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Israel is not an apartheid country. That's ridiculous.

    They have many thousands of vile terrorists next to them who have shown and said over decades that they want to murder any Israeli.

    Yet, ****ing idiots in the West keep blaming Israel for trying to defend itself against these ****heads.

    A reminder, this is what Israel is dealing with - and what we will all be dealing with increasingly, you just need to look at the vile Islamists on the streets of Western cities - their "rallies" are not "pro-Palestine" - these people carry Hamas and ISIS flags.

     
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  20. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    Heartbreaking and such brave girls ..
     
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