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Israel Goes To War with Hamas 2023

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by astros123, Oct 6, 2023.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member
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    At the moment it’s far less than either Dresden or Hiroshima. Dresden possibly 25,000 died and Hiroshima over 100,000. Those bombing s were down at the end of a war 80 years ago where millions died. We would hope that we don’t get to WWII levels of brutality.
     
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  2. basso

    basso Member
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    you can if no civilians are present.
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member
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  4. astros123

    astros123 Member

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  5. astros123

    astros123 Member

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  6. Buck Turgidson

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    Is using pepper spray or bear spray defensively considered "assault" if you're being threatened?

    I don't understand why the business owners don't just mask up and hose 'em down?

    This is a real question that I'm asking.
     
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  7. astros123

    astros123 Member

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  8. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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  9. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    It means destruction/dissolution of Israel hearkening to achieve what was promised to the Arabs during the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence.
    The gist was the British would help the Arabs overthrow their Turkish Ottoman rulers in exchange for autonomy.

    At the same time, the British were secretly negotiating with the French to split the Ottoman Middle East into Spheres of Influence. The Sykes-Picot agreement became public during the Russian Bolshevik revolution.

    On top of all that, the British supported the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine when Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour wrote to Lord Rothschild the Balfour Declaration.

    King Hussein of the Hejaz (now apart of modern-day Saudi Arabia) demanded an explanation of the Balfour declaration, head of the UK Arab Bureau David Hogarth reported that Hussein "would not accept an independent Jewish State in Palestine, nor was I instructed to warn him that such a state was contemplated by Great Britain"

    This was followed by a Syrian party also seeking clarification from the UK, to which the UK responded "the regions of the Ottoman Empire that were occupied by Allied forces in World War I should be based on the consent of the governed."

    Ultimately, Pan-Arabism of the last 100 years has included Palestine. And the region of Palestine has been passed around empires for millennia since the Assyrians and Babylonians initially conquered the Iron Age Israel and Judea.

    In 1918, this region fell under British control:

    [​IMG]

    From 1920 to 1948, this region was ruled by the British:

    [​IMG]

    The British legitimately thought that they could invite the European Jews to Palestine and at the same time not displace the Palestinian Arabs already living there.

    Both Arabs and then Jewish inhabitants committed acts of terror against each other, and against their British overlords, in the 1930s and 1940s.

    Wikipedia then tells the history better than I can.

    The Jewish Lehi (Fighters for the Freedom of Israel) and Irgun (National Military Organisation) movements initiated violent uprisings against the British Mandate in the 1940s. On 6 November 1944, Eliyahu Hakim and Eliyahu Bet Zuri (members of Lehi) assassinated Lord Moyne in Cairo. Moyne was the British Minister of State for the Middle East and the assassination is said by some to have turned British Prime Minister Winston Churchill against the Zionist cause. After the assassination of Lord Moyne, the Haganah kidnapped, interrogated, and turned over to the British many members of the Irgun ("The Hunting Season"), and the Jewish Agency Executive decided on a series of measures against "terrorist organisations" in Palestine.[64] Irgun ordered its members not to resist or retaliate with violence, so as to prevent a civil war.

    The 1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine was the first phase of the 1947–1949 Palestine war. It broke out after the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted a resolution on 29 November 1947 recommending the adoption of the Partition Plan for Palestine.[5]

    During the civil war, the Jewish and Arab communities of Palestine clashed (the latter supported by the Arab Liberation Army) while the British, who had the obligation to maintain order,[6][7] organized their withdrawal and intervened only on an occasional basis.

    When the British Mandate of Palestine expired on 14 May 1948, and with the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, the surrounding Arab states—Egypt, Transjordan, Iraq and Syria—invaded what had just ceased to be Mandatory Palestine,[8] and immediately attacked Israeli forces and several Jewish settlements.[9] The conflict thus escalated and became the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.
    The result of the war was the creation and successful defense of Israel against the Palestinians and surrounding Arab states. This is why Israel exists today. It's not enough to have a claim to land, but to be able to defend that claim.
    To the non-Jewish Arabs in Palestine, Jordan, Syria, and even Arabia and Egypt, there should never have been Jewish migrations to the Palestinian Mandate in the first place. And 75 years later, despite Israel being made up of multi-generational Israelis born in the state, Palestinians (and Muslims on the whole) still view them as European Jewish invaders and colonizers. This also ignores that half the Jews in Israel today are originally from the Middle East (Mizrahi). But the saying "from river to sea" came about in the 1960s to mean Palestine will never truly be free until its borders extended from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River. It's a rallying cry for Palestinians. It is explicitly anti-Israel. The saying would be just as applicable for Zionist aspirations.

    The British really thought they were doing the right thing, but history shows how badly their implementation has created a perpetual conflict in the region. Palestinians, even in exile, will not forget the Nakba just as the Jews held onto their story of exile for millennia.

    More Maps:

    [​IMG]
    Finally West Bank settlements as of 2019
    [​IMG]

    Some would even advocate this as a solution:

    [​IMG]

    And an Iron Age Map for completion sake
    [​IMG]

    I don't have a thoughtful solution to the conflict that will address both the Israeli and Palestinians needs, and thankfully I am not being asked to give one. I also think it's a travesty that people of the Jewish faith were not treated better in either Europe, the Middle East, or Russia throughout history.
     
    #2769 Ubiquitin, Nov 3, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2023
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  10. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

    According to the Hebrew Bible, a "United Monarchy" (consisting of Israel and Judah) existed as early as the 11th century BCE, under the reigns of Saul, David, and Solomon; the country later split into two kingdoms: Israel, containing the cities of Shechem and Samaria in the north, and Judah (containing Jerusalem and the Jewish Temple) in the south. The historicity of the United Monarchy is debated—as there are no archaeological remains of it that are accepted as consensus—but historians and archaeologists agree that Israel and Judah existed as separate kingdoms by c. 900 BCE[1]: 169–195 [2] and c. 850 BCE,[3] respectively.[4]

    The Kingdom of Israel was destroyed around 720 BCE, when it was conquered by the Neo-Assyrian Empire.[5] While the Kingdom of Judah remained intact during this time, it became a client state of first the Neo-Assyrian Empire and then the Neo-Babylonian Empire. However, Jewish revolts against the Babylonians led to the destruction of Judah in 586 BCE, under the rule of Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar II. According to the biblical account, the armies of Nebuchadnezzar II besieged Jerusalem between 589–586 BCE, which led to the destruction of Solomon's Temple and the exile of the Jews to Babylon; this event was also recorded in the Babylonian Chronicles.[6][7] The exilic period, saw the development of the Israelite religion (Yahwism) towards the monotheistic Judaism.
     
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  11. Buck Turgidson

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    @Ubiquitin

    Much respect for all the research you're doing, I keep reading everything you're posting.

    My only question, maybe you can answer it someday (and when you do, please let them know), is which of the 3 gods is the real god?

    ...so maybe they'll stop fighting?
     
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  12. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Great post man. Thanks for the research and input. Great work !!!
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    You make it sound like it is a religious war for all three.

    The truth is that only one of them has been waging a religious war that aims for the extinction of the others.

    That one is political Islam.
     
  14. Buck Turgidson

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    Because it is.

    Why do the Evangelicals in America (now spread around the Globe) support Israel?
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Did Evangelicals in America commit suicide bombings against followers of the other religions, like the Islamists have been doing for decades?

    Did Evangelicals in America just murder, rape and kidnap over 1,400 people?

    Stop.

    You should be better than this.
     
  16. Buck Turgidson

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    Nothing you just said has anything to do with an actual response to the question that I asked.

    I'm not arguing with you about Hamas vs Israel, so why don't you Stop.

    I'm honestly curious how you'd answer my question.
     
  17. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    You are making itnsound like there is a religious war because 2 or 3 sides think their God is better or whatever.

    This is simply bullshit.

    There is one intolerant, violent, murderous side, and that's the Islamists.
     
  18. Buck Turgidson

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    This is why I was asking if you know why the millions of Evangelicals support Israel?

    You do know, right?

    I will add, since you want to say things for me: Israel has every right to wage war against Hamas, I've never said otherwise.
     
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  19. right1

    right1 Member

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    Because Christianity has it's roots in Judaism and the Torah, the Nevi'im and Ketuvim which are the Old Testament.
    And, since 586AD, a new book called the Quran led to the religion of Islam spreading by the sword while considering both Jews & Christians as Infidels as Muslim hordes swept across North Africa into Spain, through Christian Byzantium (Turkiye) and into Eastern Europe leading to the Crusades.

    And, in a modern view, because Christian evangelicals align much more with Israel in a democratic society where civil rights and laws are much more similar to Western values as opposed to the Islamic sharia law they see implemented in many Muslim countries.

    That's my guess.
     
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  20. Buck Turgidson

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    Guess again
     
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