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Israel Goes To War with Hamas 2023

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by astros123, Oct 6, 2023.

  1. AroundTheWorld

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    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-weapons-afghanistan-taliban-kashmir-rcna67134

    Also:

    https://voz.us/hamas-has-american-w...ears-they-will-get-more-from-ukraine/?lang=en

    Hamas has American weapons abandoned in Afghanistan; Israel fears they will get more from Ukraine

    Israeli army officials claim that the weapons left behind by the Biden administration during the hasty and chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan have ended up in the hands of Palestinian terrorists in the Gaza Strip. This adds to the $6 billion that Biden handed over to Iran in exchange for the release of five prisoners. Despite the denials of U.S. authorities, experts point out that these funds could be helping to finance terrorist groups allied with Iran. Furthermore, it is also being investigated whether some of the weapons that the U.S. sent to Ukraine have also ended up in terrorists' hands.

    A 'very dangerous' situation for Israel

    Fears that American weapons would end up in the hands of terrorists and/or American enemies began to materialize as early as June. Then, a Newsweek report indicated that Israeli operatives had detected American weapons from Afghanistan in the hands of Palestinian terrorists. This same report analyzed the concern that some of the weapons that the U.S. sent to Ukraine could end up in the wrong hands and become a danger to the U.S. and its allies.

    The massacre of innocent Jewish civilians that started Israel's war against Hamas once again put the spotlight on these terrorists' weapons and how they came into their possession. An anonymous Israeli commander said that weapons from Afghanistan had already been found in the hands of Palestinian terrorists. According to the officer, they have so far only detected "small weapons." The U.S. Army left behind an arsenal valued in the billions of dollars, including some Black Hawk helicopters, planes and ground vehicles. The commander expressed his fear that more powerful weapons, like those that the Biden administration is sending to Ukraine, could also end up in enemy hands.

    According to the same Israeli commander, the risk is very high, as the Russians have an interest in sending weapons to destabilize the Middle East, while the factions involved in the defense of Ukraine are interested in making money by smuggling these weapons. He stressed that the situation is "very dangerous" for his country.
     
  2. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    We've gone over this multiple times. Biden was referencing the need to establish a strong coalition government before we left Afghanistan. The context he was speaking in was that leaving weapons behind before we had a government in place was bad.

    Why are you disingenuous seriously? Multiple army Generals said during senate hearings that the Afghan army was upto western standards. How is that bidens fault
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

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    Unfortunately, when you are the guy in charge, people will see you as responsible for results, good or bad. You as someone who runs a company know that.
     
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  4. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    Did you read the NBC link? The only weapons the article talks about being used are handguns and submachine guns lol.

    Their not using HIMARS or apache helicopters in other regions. They can buy handguns from any country
     
  5. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    I own a company and supposedly you are a executive. When we have a new employee we train them and give them all.the resources needed to do the job. We have no idea how long that employee will last at the job but it's our goal to train them to do their jobs.

    You have no idea if the country you're training will end up like Ukraine or they'll act like Afghanistan. You never know what a person's intentions are in the real world.

    That's the nature of man kind. When push comes to shove some run while others fight. We never know until we know.
     
  6. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    The funny thing is now the taliban are fighting with isis. Let the 2 ****ers kill themselves.
     
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  7. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    what company do you own?
     
  8. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    I do medical equipment in northern Indiana and great lakes area. Mostly CPAP supplies

    I know how to hack lol I'm not worried.
     
    #2448 astros123, Oct 24, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2023
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Be prepared for the internet to suss you out if you say - think about it....if you don't mind being public - go for it, if you want privacy like say ATW - don't say.

    DD
     
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  10. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    are y'all hiring?
     
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  11. FranchiseBlade

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    No they wouldn't have controlled those things in the deal.

    Part of the problem was also that Israel would control a "security zone" which include much of the Jordan Valley. So while it wasn't going to be Israel-proper, it was going to be under control of Israeli security.

    The Palestinian areas in the West Bank weren't even all connected. There were 4 cantons.
    Jericho, the southern canton
    A Northern one that had several of the major cities such as Jenin and Nablus.
    Then there was also a central one that would contain Ramallah

    And those areas would still be surrounded by Israeli annexed territories. So the new Palestinian state would have been a bunch of unconnected islands. That isn't really workable. Also the 96% claim doesn't include the areas that were not supposed to be Israeli but would still be controlled by Israeli security. So it wasn't actually 96%.

    Here is some background on water issues in the area.
    https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2001/09/fisher.htm

    This one isn't specifically related to the 2000 deal but highlights the problem and lack of equity and opportunity.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/17/how-israel-uses-water-to-control-west-bank-palestine
     
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  12. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    Again. None of this is reason for why you nix a deal. You get NOTHING in return if you say no. They still would've had control of all of Gaza. You agree to this and then build goodwill with the international community and push for more diplomatic.

    Israeli security would've left those areas if the violence was down. That was a known thing that was spoken about. It's a start

    I just get people and their purity mindset. The alternative is ZERO. NONE NOTHING.
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

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    I was in favor of accepting the deal, but it wouldn't have worked long term. All of those are reasons why the solution wouldn't work long term, especially if more of the general public would think the Palestinians were being greedy after accepting such a "generous" deal. I'm saying that there is reasons why it should have been accepted, but there are also reasons why they might not want it, even if there were other more prescient matters about why they didn't accept.

    It's fine to say the Palestinians should have accepted the deal. I pretty much agree with that. But to pretend like the only reason to not accept it was because the agreement didn't wipe Israel off the face of the earth, or that they would only accept destruction of all of Israel.
     
  14. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    The right is genuinely effin insane.
     
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  15. astros123

    astros123 Member
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  16. astros123

    astros123 Member
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  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Low class taking down hostages pictures.....classless act.

    DD
     
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  18. Exiled

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  19. Commodore

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    Israel vs. a Death Cult Here are three critical considerations that must be understood about the current Israel-Hamas conflict. It is a sort of half-war. It consists of a military trying to defeat an organized clique of passive-aggressive, media-obsessed tribal murderers.

    It is not really a war. This ‘war’ did not begin with a military assault. It is nothing like the Six-Day and Yom Kippur Wars, or indeed most other conflicts. It broke out with a surprise assault by between 1,500 and 2,500 gunmen of the Hamas death squads.

    During peace and on a holiday, they entered Israel in a long-planned hit operation to murder civilians and take captives, focusing specifically on butchering the most vulnerable—the elderly, women, children, and infants—and in the most grotesque fashion imaginable.

    Their desire was to be as savagely pre-civilizational as possible—the more macabre the manner of murder, the more fertile their sophistry that they were reduced to such repulsive blood lust by their worse “oppressors”. It would be as though gruesome Mafia hitmen had claimed they were forced to become animal-like due to even worse systemic anti-Italian bias. Even the Mexican cartels do not claim they are led to behead because of the injustice of the Mexican government.

    By preplanned design, women were raped, and children and infants were burned alive, bound and executed, and (yes) beheaded. The dead were often mutilated. Some 1,400 Israelis were butchered, the vast majority civilians. Some 3,500-4,500 were wounded.

    Hamas never planned to stage a preemptive war against the Israeli military. Its only agenda was to send killers to unprotected villages to murder the unarmed as they slept—in the manner of Nazi Einsatzgruppen and other mobile death squads on the Eastern Front. Almost immediately they counted on using hostages, human shields, and the media to avoid any accounting from the IDF.

    To distract from the murder mission, Hamas launched some 5,000 rockets—all intended as terror weapons to strike civilians, in the fashion of the V-1 and V-2 attacks on London. What followed is the most asymmetrical “war” in memory. The IDF is the only military in the world told to be “proportionate” in its use of retaliatory force—not the U.S. after 9/11, and not Ukraine after February 24, 2022. No Arab army or terrorist cadre has ever waged a war under the rules of “proportionality”.

    Can anyone remember a conflict, other than ones involving the U.S. or Britain, in which the attacked in its response is expected to first phone or drop leaflets warning its target areas? Does Hamas do that when it launches its rockets at Israeli cities?

    It is not an anti-colonial struggle. Gaza is not anyone’s“colony”. It has been autonomous since 2006-7. No free Israeli Arab Muslim citizen would willingly emigrate there to live under the dictatorship of Hamas. And for good reason. Gaza has been the recipient of aggregate billions in cash from the Gulf monarchies, Europe, the US, the UN. and expatriate remittances. The more money came in, the less Hamas had any intention of using it to serve its people.

    Most of the gifted funds were used to build the world’s largest subterranean city of death, to buy drones and rockets, and to pay gunmen to kill Jews. Essentially Hamas is an enormous mafia-like, shakedown and hostage-taking operation that threatens the general peace, the moderate Arab nations, the Western democracies, and Israel with terrorist operations and kidnapping unless sufficiently bribed to behave. Usually, soldiers wear uniforms in battle and their far away civilian overseers do not; Hamas killers in action wear anything, but their distant leaders in safety often prefer uniforms.

    So, Hamas is primarily neither a government nor even an armed force designed to fight other soldiers, but rather some eerie updated SS or Mexican-like cartel. Was that reality at the time unknown to Gazans who once voted them into power, or to its unhinged supporters on the streets and campuses of the US who celebrated its murder missions and damned Israel—even before Israel responded?

    Only Hamas is deliberately targeting civilians. Hamas fires its rockets at Israeli civilians from hospitals, schools, UN facilities, and mosques. Again, note the logic: Hamas assumes that Israel fights wars more humanely than Hamas itself does, and so will both try to avoid Hamas’s Palestinian human shields, and of course never itself employ such a barbaric tactic—since, among other humane reasons, Israeli civilians would attract, rather than deflect a Hamas rocket.

    The Israelis avoid collateral damage; there is not even such a concept for Hamas: all of its attacks are primarily aimed at civilians. Collateral damage for Hamas follows from accidently encountering the IDF.

    How Orwellian that the world demands that Israel, in its efforts to prevent Hamas rocket launches aimed exclusively at its civilian population, must not hurt a single civilian who is impressed to shield the rocket launchers. Note well: Hamas’s air campaign is specifically designed to kill civilians—Israel’s to avoid them. In Israel rockets are used to shield civilians; in Gaza civilians are used to shield rockets.

    Hamas seeks to force the Israeli military to violate the rules of war; Israel accepts that there are no rules that Hamas gunman would ever follow. The odd result is that a sick world is more accepting of deliberate mass murdering by Hamas than occasional accidental collateral damage by Israel.
     
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  20. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    US warning Israel not to do full blown invasion.
     

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