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Israel Goes To War with Hamas 2023

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by astros123, Oct 6, 2023.

  1. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    If Palestine are liken to b the native Americans in this situation, struggling, commiting acts of violence to rebel, it will just cause Israel to come down harder on the people. Best to accept the scrap the superior force offers and live as best u can.

    Native Americans learnt that lesson years ago.
     
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  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Hamas probably believes that an overreacting IDF murdering Palestinians in the next weeks will have more sympathizers.

    Definitely not a rational avenue of change definitely but hey there were Jews after WW2 who hunted German citizens and killed families of Germans and obviously you have to empathize because i get the rage. You were just a victim of a genocide probably seeing your entire family tortured to death and ya these are the natural feelings people have.
     
  3. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Pretty much. A single state solution would be the ideal solution. The challenge is that the American experiment embraces Natives officially. But a majority of Israeli's will not embrace a multi-religious, multi-ethnic Israel as it was explicitly founded as an ethno-state.
     
  4. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    Whole situation sucks. I’ve been briefed from a friend supporting the Palestinians and I have empathy for those people. Then you see the videos from today and I can’t fathom how anyone supports their attack. It’s just wrong all around. This isn’t going to end well. It’s a full blown holy war. Very scary situation.
     
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  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I would say imagine how easy it is to become radicalized if as a child you experience something like your home being leveled with a family member in it.
     
  6. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Roughly 6500/km^2.
     
  7. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    Honestly the only thing stopping Israel from wiping out palestine and turning it into a single nation is probably world wide condemnation and higher frequency of arab terrorists attack from abroad and within but if they really wanted to they could due to superior forces and most countries will move on from it.

    It won't lead to world War and I don't see any of the major countries (US, China, etc) stepping in to interfere on the palestine behalf.

    The underdog story of a weaker nation beating up a superior nation (us v great Britain) aint happening in modern time.
     
  8. tmacfor35

    tmacfor35 Contributing Member

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    Yeah… life experiences create your beliefs. This feels more like the start of something bigger than Ukraine/Russia. Much more emotional responses from other countries. I’m worried.
     
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  9. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Like I said in the beginning of this thread: how long until the extremist right wing government in Israel calls for a final solution to it's Palestinian problem.
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

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    Biden isn't "anti war", but the fiscal argument falls flat on its face.

    $100 billion over two years when the US federal budget over two years when the US budget ~ $7 trillion over two years doesn't really scream "huge fan"..... Unless you don't understand math.

    If you want to come at it from a geopolitical angle of the US trying to hurt a major geopolitical rival (who is trying to do the same to the US), then the US is a big fan and I support that. But it's literally not a big deal from a fiscal perspective.
     
  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    So there is no such thing as precision targeting of ordinance in a area like that right? A population that dense when you fling ordinance on top of them, you know already you will kill civilians. It's a certainty with that popular denssity. The only difference between the terror attacks and dropping ordinance is the later is far more sterile and the former is far more intimate.

    The IDF if they are trying to mitigate civilian Palestinian deaths they are doing a horrible job. Or if Hamas is trying to maximize civilian deaths they are doing a horrible job. The guys doing the maximization have a far smaller death count of civilians in the past 20 years than the group allegedly doing the minimization.
     
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  12. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    As cynical as it feels to type this, I think we in the US and really the "west" benefit tremendously from a fractured and contentious middle east. The Sykes–Picot Agreement was explicitly made to dismantle the Ottoman empire. Would you rather deal with a unified middle east (whether it's the domain of the Turks, Arabs, or Persians) or deal with dozen feuding parties who would not want to see their rival get a one up on them. I would expect the Turks would want to reunify the region due to the proximity of the Ottoman empire in time and nostalgia by the member states, but having an Israel in the mix means this will NEVER happen. Having a strong Saudi Arabia means this will NEVER happen.
     
  13. dmoneybangbang

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    Chaos is a ladder for the backers of Hama.
     
  14. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    The difference is the targets. You know you will kill civilians, but unless you are going to let the militants attack you with impunity, there are no other options. Hamas could attack only military targets, but have instead repeatedly chosen to attack civilian targets.
    You need to look at percentages, not overall numbers. Of course the IDF is better at war than Hamas. That doesn't mean Israel is maximizing civilian casualties and Hamas is minimizing them, Hamas would love to be able to kill a million Israelis. They just can't. Israel chooses to not annihilate the Gaza Strip.
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I would say international pressure is a significantly more plausible reason Isreal doesn't level Gaza and just start over and forget the concept that Palestinians existed so they can satisfy their ethnostate


    Your lack of ability to do basic empathy exercises leads you to a situation where you have black and white concepts of morality. One side is evil and one side is good.


    One side wants to maintain the status quo of the current hierarchial system and the other side wants to to remove that hierarchy.

    That's all it is.

    The IDF has modern military bases with modern security you'd expect in a conventional base. That means these type of attacks would never work.

    Palestinians have no conventional military. Hence it's an insurgent forces living amongst a dense population. So both sides have incentive to attack civilian populations Hamas isn't capable of attacking IDF military targets and the insurgency groups are living amongst Gazan residents and thefore the IDF targets civilian locations.
     
  16. dmoneybangbang

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    To an extent... I think the US truly does want a stable global oil supply and sometimes a fractious middle east can provide it. But it's fluid....

    Saddam was beneficial when he was a foil against Iran and we gave the approval for him to use chemical weapons against the Iranian military, but when it turned into genocide against his own people and the invasion of a neighbor (an oil producing neighbor) ..... it was less beneficial.
     
  17. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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  18. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    Jennifer Griffin is not a reporter, she is a spokeswoman for the Pentagon.

    All of her reporting is reliant on sources in the Pentagon, and if she says anything counter to the Pentagon narrative, she will lose her sources.
     
  19. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    It's triple the budget of NASA per year.

    20 times the us border patrol budget per year

    Double the federal highway administrations budget in 2021.

    So in relative importance, building roads, enforcing the border and science and exploration are losing bigtime to fighting proxy wars. You are insanely coping.
     
  20. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    she doesn't know how money works. money is fungible.
     

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