The Golan hieights are strategically important. The Syrians attacked Israel. They are still enemies of Israel. Why should Israel return the land until Syria is willing to live in peace with Israel? Egypt agreed, and their land were all returned to them. Doesn't sound unreasonable at all.
gee isn't it funny that all the terrorist organisations you've listed have one thing in common, they all operate in OCCUPIED TERRITORIES? By the way, Israeli occupation of south Lebanon ended in 2000. Coincidently, so has much of the anti-israeli terrorist activities in Lebanon.
Actually, your comments are more like using the following interchangeably: Ireland and Irish Catholics around the world, or Italy and Roman Catholics around the world. Or if you want to use the ethnicity perspective, how about Ireland and gaelics around the world. I could go on, but hopefully you grasp the concept.
apparently to you, israel is justified to break any number of international laws and violate any other state so long as they're considered "enemies", even when these enemies are utterly incapable of inflicting military harm against Israel. it might be reasonable to you, but i'd venture to say that all but 2 countries in the world would tend to disagree. with respect to the golan heights, whatever excuses you conjure up, israel is in material breach of international law, and has been for 30 years, while syria is the victim, not the criminal. similarly, until israel can offer concrete, irrefutable evidence that what they hit was a terrorist camp targeting israel, they have committed a gross crime in this incident as well (hell some may argue that this is a crime even IF it was a terrorist camp). we're not talking about some diplomatic insults or hijacking here, but the equivalent of some country lobbing missiles at houses 30 miles from Washington D.C.! foolhardy to say the least, if not downright idiotic.
i find it hilarious that you call me a racist SOB and insult me repeated and then graciously accept my apology. to quote yourself, "the forgiveness was not yours to give". the apology was made to all the jewish people out there who did not support the continued persecution of Waldheim and arab people, and whom i wrongly stereotyped. i never wrongly stereotyped you. my comments about the hypocrisy of the holocaust/shoah movement and your boorish behavior stand.
There is no hypocrisy for comparing the holocaust to the current situation in Israel as you state Lil. Saying that jews haven't learned anything from it is sickening. We learned that nobody will protect us except for OURSELVES. The arab world wants Israel gone. My soul aches for those palestinians that are victims to the corruption of their own society. You ask Jews to show compassion for Palestinians and end occupation. The compassion will come when the bombings stop. You may disagree with me, and thats fine, but my opinion is credible since I am a Jew and I can speak for many. It is time for Israel to cut off the head of the terrorist monster, and that means attacking terrorist organizations in other countries. The Palestinians are just tentacles of the monster. Without the funding necessary to make the bombs and arm these bastards, it will only save lives.
what war? for the sake of world peace, let's pray it WAS a terrorist camp. if not, the middle east, and the international order for that matter, just took another step toward hell.
My apology was not unconditional. It required your caution with negative racial steretyping. You now claim that I support the continued persecution of Arabs. I should have followed Buck's advice in the other thread and just ignored you, which is where you are going back to. Adios.
if that's the lesson you took away from holocaust education, there isn't much i can say except i disagree. but i do believe in the validity of your statement, that jewish compassion for palestinians will surface when the bombings stop. right now there is just too much anger and hate on both sides. the main funding for the terrorists come from arab states and muslims all around the world. the main funding for the PLO comes from the EU. the main funding for Israel comes from the US. we are americans. the only side we can really influence is Israel. it is as simple as that. it also happens that israel is the only power capable of changing the realities on the ground: halt the settlements, give back land, accept the palestinians, etc. israel has all the cards in this game. the palestinians only have terror, which gets them nowhere anyway. before, other arab states could use a potential invasion as leverage, but since israel acquired the nuke, that's no longer an option, leaving israel's position even more powerful. and with power comes responsibility. taking out israel's neighbors will only drag us into the same mess israel is in right now. i think you ought to look at the entire cycle of hatred and violence, provocation and retaliation, and all the players caught up in it, as the monster. and like the hydra, if we just cut off one head, it grows right back. if we want to kill the monster once and for all, we'll need to address all the heads at the same time. and to me, that requires a two-state solution which returns all the occupied territories (the arab states), permits the right of return (the refugees), the creation of a viable palestinian state (the palestinians under israeli control), while guaranteeing the security of israel (israel).
no. you supported the continued persecution of kurt waldheim. hate enough for me. of course i may be wrong, and maybe you just don't know anything about kurt waldheim and was talking out of your a$$.
Who'd of thought glynch and trader gorge would have so much in common? I don't believe jackass is something that should get someone banned, nor do I know of an instance where someone has been banned for its usage. However, it would seem clear that you should apologize to Cohen for your 'put up shut up' attitude, as buck provided an example.
You realize that this effectively ends the state of Israel, correct? The other points of your settlement are quite valid, and things I agree should be done, but this is a deal-breaker, and will never be acceptable to Israel.
Serious question: Suppose that, in order to stop what they saw as the terroristic victimization of Arab civilians, Egypt or Syria had launched a military strike into Israel...offering no subtantiation for thei claim that the target of their attack...in another nation...was the source of terrorist attacks against their citizens other than that they said so... What would have happened by now? What would our reaction be? Would Israel have declared war by now, or later this week? What would the UN's stance on that war have been? WHat would the U.S.'s stance been? Does anyone else see a familiar philosophy at work here? If you have the most guns, you can do what you like, so long as you think you have cause, and to hell with what anyone else thinks, or whether you offer any proof of your position. We are reverting to pre-WWII, almost pre-Louis XIV positions on the relationship between power and actions, and between powerful nations and the international community. Might makes right. This is not to say that Israel is incorrect in their conclusion about the base, I have no idea. But the trend that we are seeing, Iraq, and now this...it's disturbing, and going to get worse before it gets better if those enacting it are not called to account. You cannot, or are not supposed to, in the modern age, supercede internationally recognized sovereignty with military action just because you want to and can. You are supposed to be accountable, and responsible/responsive to the international community. We fought two bloody wordl wars to recognize the horrific combination of madern technology and a might makes right mindset, and invoked the power of the UN to counter act it...Now we are leading the charge back to medieval thinking. As for Lil being a racist...unless I've missed some significant dialogue ( quite possible), I'd say that that's a ridiculous claim. He might be, although I haven't seen any signs of it, but just because his position on this is to take the Palestinian side does not make him racist, any more than those ( like you, Cohen, as much as I like you) who almost automatically take the Israeli side. I myself often take the Palestinian side in here simply because the other side is the more common toAmericans, and I am usually prone to playing Devil's advocate...in other circumstances I often take the Israeli side... But from Lil's perspective, he reflects the global opionion a lot more than the US, and unless we are to conclude that everyone else is racist against Jews whereas we are the enlightened ones, it might be food for thought about who is and who isn't objective about this subject.
Nice post, MacBeth. Do I think Lil is racist or a bigot, not really because he hasn't said all the Jews or Semites should be destroyed. If he is guilty of anything it's not being sensitive.
I am not really involved in this heated accusation, but I really don't think Lil is a racist. I believe there are a lot of closet racists in this country (I was subject to some), sometimes a slip of tougue can reveal their true feeling. But I don't think it is the case here, Lil had been very consistent with his position. And sometimes, an unfortuanate remark may come out in the middle of heated argument. The offender apologized and I believed him. But Lil's position certainly has a lot of merits.
why can't israel be a multi-cultural society? isn't it one already? under the right of return, the refugees can be treated just like new israeli immigrants, simply increasing the number of palestinian arabs already in israeli society. and while it may be impossible to give them back their former lands, certainly it is possible to justly compensate them for their lost property, much like former european jews have been compensated in recent nazi settlements for their pre-WW2 property. perhaps the existing settlements in occupied territories can be given in exchange to some extent. (not sure about the math). but it certainly isn't as impossible as you make it out to be. if this is not implemented, then millions of discontented refugees will continue to protest and resist in the only way they know: terror. and THAT i believe will be the real deal-breaker.
