Islamic USF player: Dispute over uniform led to dismissal

i'm not trying to achieve anything. enjoy discussion with people from very different viewpoints.

 

Supposedly Mohammed was possessed by Satan for awhile, and that is how Muslims deny some of the passages attributed to him (hadiths I think they're called). Otherwise known as the 'Satanic Verses.'

Its what got Salman Rushdie in so much hot waters with the wacko clerics in the Middle East.

 

Yes, but the point is that writing was much more advanced at the time of the Prophet Muhammad, and just like Christianity, there were regular people who were eyewitnesses to what went on.

The only thing that no one can prove about Islam is that Muhammad recieved a message from God, which never in fact happened.

Here's exactly what happened:

Muhammad can't read or write. The angel Gabriel transferred the message to him, and he memorized every single word. During these "sessions" he had intense cases of shaking and seizure, or whatever (hence why people think he was possesed). He would then proceed to recite the message to someone who could write, a memeber of the "Sahaba", who would then write it down. He recited the Qura'an by heart from the beginning to end several times to the angel Gabriel to confirm that he was accurate. IIRC, one of the "Sahaba" actually heard him recite the whole thing once (correct me anyone who knows).

When Muhammad began getting old, the "Sahaba" got together and made 7 copies of the Qura'an, all identical letter for letter. Even the "pronounciation symbols" are identical to this day. You can even learn the tone in which to properly read the Qura'an so you get the correct "sound".

Back to the point. Of those 7 copies, I personally know of 2 that exist... One in Tashkent (Uzbekistan or Kazakhastan) and one in Egypt. If you go and look at those copies of the Qura'an and buy one off the street, you will find that when you compare them there is no difference WHATSOEVER in any letter between both copies.

That is the miracle of the Qura'an. That's Muhammad's miracle. According to Muslims, he was able to do what no other Prophet could - accurately capture God's words forever (Inshallah).

 

I would appreciate it if you were a little more respectful in conversation towards Islamic matters.

There is no such thing as Satanic verses, and what Rushdie wrote he has zero proof of. The reason he was in hot water was because he was talking out of his ass, he had no proof whatsoever of his accusations.

Only God knows the future, and even Christianity supports that, so how did Muhammad know the future? Did Satan tell him?

Oh and just to BURN whoever said that we shouldn't believe in a book that was written when people thought the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth:

The Qura'an actually says that the earth is round and that earth revolves around the sun.

 

Because then that would be going against all other religions - christians, Muslims and jews wouldn't be able to watch you for example...

However, if this woman wears a headscarf, no one gets hurt. Except SJC and DaDa who are trying to wipe Islam off the face of the earth.

 

There is no rule in the bible against playing basketball in the nude.

I bet there ain't in the Koran (spelling) either. And since Islam is the last religion and all, naked balling should be fine.

 

The reason that he is in hot water is that the mullahs of the sect of the religion you seem to agree with are gangsters and criminals and unfortunately, there are some extremists who follow these terrible people.

 

sweet. i can see sane and adeel have almost been converted over from the dark side

 

I would appreciate it if you guys would come to the realization this is the 21st century, not the 5th century. So we're even I guess.

What are "The Satanic Verses"? Salman Rushdie made these words famous after he used them for the title of his book [1], but what do these words refer to? The Satanic Verses refer to an event in Muhammad's life. This event is recorded in the Qur'an.

Never did We send a Messenger or a Prophet before you but when he did recite the revelation or narrated or spoke, Shaitan (Satan) threw (some falsehood) in it. But Allah abolishes that which Shaitan (Satan) throws in. Then Allah establishes His Revelations (Qur'an 22:52, Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali)

Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you (Muhammad) with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But God abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. (Qur'an 22:52, Dawood)

This part of the Qur'an is addressed to Muhammad to comfort him by reminding him of the prophets who were before him. As you can see this verse is clearly referring to Satan's activity. The verse says that every prophet and apostle has had Satan "tamper" with their "wishes", and interject his words (Satan's words) into the revelation of Allah, but that Allah has abrogated the "interjections of Satan".

What is the event behind such a verse? What were the "wishes" of Muhammad that Satan tampered with? What were the "interjections of Satan" that Allah had to abrogate from what Muhammad recited? Why did Muhammad need comforting? The events that lay behind this verse are well recorded and accepted as authentic by the early Islamic scholars Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari. In this article we will consider what the Islamic scholar Ibn Ishaq[2] records about The Satanic Verses. Ibn Ishaq is the oldest account of Muhammad's life and the complete text of what Ibn Ishaq records is provided as an appendix.

Muhammad and the Idols of Mecca

While Muhammad was in Mecca he tried to persuade the Quraysh (Meccans) to accept Islam. They were not receptive to him and made life difficult for him and his followers, and so Muhammad's desire to see his people accept him and Islam was unfulfilled. This was until Muhammad recited the following verse.

Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third ... these are the exalted Gharaniq[3] whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)
Al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat were some of the local idols worshiped in Mecca. Previously Muhammad had spoken against them in his monotheist preaching but now Muhammad accepted the idols and recited that their "intercession is approved". The Islamic explanation as to why Muhammad accepted the idols is that Satan put these words on Muhammad's lips.

Satan ... put upon his (Muhammad's) tongue "these are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved". (Ibn Ishaq, p. 165-166)
Muhammad recited these words as if they were from God when in fact they were from Satan. This is what is meant by the phrase, the Satanic verses: they are verses from Satan that Muhammad recited as if they were from God. Now that Muhammad had recited that the idols were acceptable the Quraysh accepted him.

When Quraysh heard that, they were delighted and greatly pleased at the way in which he spoke of their gods and they listened to him ... Then the people dispersed and Quraysh went out, delighted at what had been said about their gods, saying, "Muhammad has spoken of our gods in splendid fashion". (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166)
Muhammad's desire had been realised; the Quraysh accepted him. The Quraysh accepted Muhammad because he had accepted their gods and idols. However, after some time Muhammad realised the error of what he had said. The Islamic explanation is that Muhammad was rebuked by the angel Gabriel.

Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said , "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you." (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166)
Muhammad now changed his mind and said that God had told him to speak against the idols and to reject them.

When the annulment of what Satan had put upon the prophet's tongue came from God, Quraysh said: "Muhammad has repented of what he said about the position of your gods with Allah, altered it and brought something else." (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166-167)
Muhammad now had to explain both to his followers and to the Quraysh why he had changed his mind about their idols and no longer accepted them. The reason he gave was the following verse of the Qur'an.

Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But God abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. (Qur'an 22:52, Dawood)
Muhammad's explanation was that his momentary acceptance of the idols was because Satan had tampered with his wishes and given him words that he thought were from God, but that God had now removed these verses and corrected the whole situation.

Some comments about the Satanic verses

Such an event as Muhammad speaking the words of Satan and momentarily accepting idolatry and polytheism demand some comment.

1. It must be remembered that it is the Qur'an which records that Satan tampered with Muhammad's wishes and made interjections into what he recited (Qur'an 22:52). And it is Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari who recorded and accepted the details of this event. If this story was told by people opposed to Islam then it would be fair to question whether they had invented this story as a way of discrediting Muhammad. But it is inconceivable that Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari would invent a story about Muhammad accepting idols.

2. The Qur'an records that other prophets also sinned this way. Adam committed this sin (7:189-192), and so did Aaron (4:163, 7:150-153). Both of these prophets were rebuked for their behaviour. They repented and God had mercy on them and forgave them. Therefore, it cannot be argued that a prophet would be incapable of doing this because the Qur'an clearly records that other prophets have done it.

3. The Qur'an also records that verses of the Qur'an were changed at times.

And when We exchange a verse in the place of another verse - and God knows very well what he is sending down - they say (to Muhammad), "Thou art a mere forger!" (Qur'an 16:101, Arberry)
In this verse we see people complaining about Muhammad and saying he is a "forger" because the content of what he recited was changing. This is consistent with the account of the Satanic verses where verses that he recited earlier were later changed.

4. Muhammad committed a sin. Accepting idolatry and polytheism is sin and for a short period of time, while he was claiming to be a prophet, Muhammad did this. It is true that Muhammad repented of this sin and this is to his credit, but this event still shows a great failing in his life. This event must not be ignored because it is inconvenient or thought irrelevant, for it shows that Muhammad was like you and me; he had to confess his sins and ask for forgiveness:

(Muhammad prayed) O Allah! Forgive my mistakes and my ignorance and my exceeding the limit (boundaries) of righteousness in my deeds; and forgive whatever You know better than I. O Allah! Forgive the wrong I have done jokingly or seriously, and forgive my accidental and intentional errors, all that is present in me. (Sahih Al-Bukhari: vol 8, book 75, number 408)
So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and women (Qur'an 47:19, Pickthall)
5. We have seen that the following verse explains why Muhammad momentarily accepted idolatry and spoke Satan's words.

Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But God abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. (Qur'an 22:52, Dawood)
The verse says that all prophets and apostles had Satan affect them. This verse is partly true, for it is true that Satan has caused many of God's prophets to sin. The Bible records such events, for example, Adam and Eve rebelled against God (Genesis 3); Aaron made the golden calf (Exodus 32); David counted his army (1 Chronicles 21:1); Judas betrayed Jesus (Luke 22:3), and Peter tempted Jesus (Matthew 16:23). However this verse in the Qur'an is totally false when it comes to Jesus for Jesus never sinned. Jesus was tempted by Satan in exactly the same way that Muhammad was, but unlike Muhammad Jesus never sinned: Muhammad was tempted to acknowledge false gods in order to achieve his desire of the Quraysh accepting him; he gave in to this temptation and acknowledged their gods. Jesus too was tempted to achieve his desire to rule as Christ by acknowledging false gods, but when Satan tempted Jesus

Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'" (Matthew 4:10)
How different Jesus is to Muhammad! Jesus always obeyed God:

He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth (1 Peter 2:22). (He) has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin (Hebrews 4:15).
Jesus is the only person who has offered perfect submission to God. What a great example he is to us!

Appendix: The complete account of Muhammad speaking the Satanic verses as recorded by Ibn Ishaq.

Now the apostle was anxious for the welfare of his people, wishing to attract them as far as he could. It has been mentioned that he longed for a way to attract them, and the method he adopted is what Ibn Hamid told me that Salama said M. b. Ishaq told him from Yazid b. Ziyad of Medina from M. b. Ka`b al-Qurazi: When the apostle saw that his people turned their backs on him and he was pained by their estrangement from what he brought them from God he longed that there should come to him from God a message that would reconcile his people to him. Because of his love for his people and his anxiety over them it would delight him if the obstacle that made his task so difficult could be removed; so that he meditated on the project and longed for it and it was dear to him. Then God sent down "By the star when it sets your comrade errs not and is not deceived, he speaks not from his own desire," and when he reached His words "Have you thought of al-Lat and al-`Uzza and Manat the third, the others"[4], Satan, when he was meditating upon it, and desiring to bring it (sc. reconciliation) to his people, put upon his tongue "these are the exalted Gharaniq[5] whose intercession is approved". When the Quraysh heard that, they were delighted and greatly pleased at the way in which he spoke of their gods and they listened to him; while the believers were holding that what their prophet brought from their Lord was true, not suspecting a mistake or a vain desire or slip, and when he reached the prostration and the end of the Sura in which he prostrated himself the Muslims prostrated themselves when their prophet prostrated confirming what he brought and obeying his command, and the polytheists of Quraysh and others who were in the mosque prostrated when they heard the mention of their gods, so that everyone in the mosque believer and unbeliever prostrated, except al-Walid b. al-Mughira who was an old man who could not do so, so he took a handful of dirt from the valley and bent over it. Then the people dispersed and the Quraysh went out, delighted at what had been said about their gods, saying, "Muhammad has spoken of our gods in splendid fashion. He alleged in what he read that they are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved".

The news reached the prophet's companions who were in Abyssinia, it being reported that Quraysh had accepted Islam, so some men started to return while others remained behind. Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said , "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you." The apostle was bitterly grieved and was greatly in fear of God. So God sent down (a revelation), for he was merciful to him comforting him and making light of the affair and telling him that every prophet and apostle before him desired as he desired and wanted what he wanted and Satan interjected something into his desires as he had on his tongue. So God annulled what Satan had suggested and God established His verses i.e. you are just like the prophets and apostles. Then God sent down: "We have not sent a prophet or apostle before you but when he longed Satan cast suggestions into his longing. But God will annul what Satan has suggested. Then God will establish his verses, God being knowing and wise"[6]. Thus God relieved his prophet's grief, and made him feel safe from his fears and annulled what Satan had suggested in the words used above about their gods by his revelation "Are yours the males and His the females? That were indeed an unfair division" (i.e. most unjust); "they are nothing by names which your fathers gave them" as far as the words "to whom he pleases and accepts"[7], i.e. how can the intercession of their gods avail with Him?

When the annulment of what Satan had put upon the prophet's tongue came from God, Quraysh said: "Muhammad has repented of what he said about the position of your gods with Allah, altered it and brought something else." (Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad, (tr. A. Guillaume) Karachi: Oxford University Press, 1998, pp. 165-167)

 

.Why have conservative Muslims largely refused to discuss al-Tabari's account of the "Satanic verses"? The simple reason seems to be that it presents a messy picture of the Prophet as fallible, and a Qur'an capable of being temporarily distorted by his human inclinations to win over his tribe. More importantly, the immense body of Islamic Law is based upon the reports (Hadith) of the Prophet's life and teachings. However, if even the Qur'an, which is held to be pure divine revelation, was subject to the fallibility of the Prophet, then the Hadith are even more so, since they are explicitly his words and not God's. The Qur'anic verses regarding abrogation can in fact be seen as a divine guarantee of the revelation; in spite of the fallibility of the prophet, God ensures the correctness of the Qur'an by replacing incorrect verses. However, there is no such guarantee of abrogation for the Hadith. Conservatives find such questioning of the Hadith and Islamic Law to be unacceptable.
So why all the fuss about Rushdie's book? Would al-Tabari himself be eligible for a death sentence if he were alive today, even though in his own time the question never arose? The answer possibly has less to do with al-Tabari and more to do with the injured pride of Ayatollah Khomeini, who proclaimed the death sentence upon Rushdie. Unfortunately, Rushdie's book was banned in most Muslim countries, so most Muslims never got a chance to read his vicious satire of Khomeini as a mullah who literally rides to power seated on the back of the angel Gabriel. If in fact it was simply Khomeini's annoyance at Rushdie's parody that brought on the death sentence, Muslims around the world have been pawns in an unfortunate contest of egos.

 

Hahahahahahaha, all I can do is laugh Hayesstreet.


First of all, show me your link so I can laugh it off.


Second of all, look at the quotes which you put up there... They are apparently from Taqi-U-Din Al Hilali and Dawood, yet you claim that they are from the Qura'an.

EVERYONE needs to see this to show that Hayestreet has no clue about Islam.

Tell, me, if the entire Qura'an is one big quote from God, how did you find two people's quotes in there?

Go to islam.com, search every single verse, word for word, I guarantee you you will not find it in there.

It is not in the Qura'an.

Let it be known that you were completely wrong. Let it be known that you are just relaying what you've heard, that much is clear from your quotes.


As I said, Salman Rushdi quoted people from Hadiths that apparently only him and a few people know about. How the Hell would such a huge thing be hidden for hundreds of years?

His sources are made up, and his books filled with his assumptions.

I dare you. Try again. Let me pick it apart for everyone to see.

 

Making people lust is a sin.

 

I just want to add that there are so many fallacies in Hayestreet's two posts, it's almost unbelievable.


Islam is not IMMENSELY based on the Hadiths. It is first and foremost based on the Qura'an, and the hadith is a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery distant second. For the most part, the Hadiths explain what's in the Qura'an, and a lot of times it explains (for example) how certain things which are not in the Qura'an actually are in the Qura'an.

If you really believe this quote, then tell me.... Aren't you more worried about Christianity and Juddaism, since God apparently DIDN'T confirm his own revelations in those books?

 

First of all, I will let my wife check out your link. I don't know that much about Islam and she easily knows way more then I do. Then I will have her respond to your link.

Second of all, why do you have to "fear the after life"? I dont think Allah meant us to fear Him when he created us.

Tell me one thing...do you think Allah is going to send all non-Muslims to hell or something like that? Do you think you are going to get a special place in Heaven if you are a good Muslim as opposed to a good Jew or Hindu or Christian?

I am an Ismaili Muslim and I do most (not all) of the things that are asked of an Ismaili Muslim. I dont eat port, I pay zakat (sp?), I pray everday, etc. But I do ocassionally drink and gambel. Does that mean I go to like level 5 in Heaven, as opposed to some Muslim who does everything by the Quran who will get to level 10 or something?

I think anyone who is good in their lifetime, be it Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jew, athiest, etc. will get to heavean. You dont have to fear Allah to get to there. You dont have to be a Muslim to get there.

I believe when Allah created us He meant for us to love Him, not fear Him. And I highly doubt He meant for us men to treat our women like crap. He created both men and women and I dont think He wanted men to get everything their way while the women have to suffer.

 

Don't you think Allah would be much happier if we loved him instead of fearing him?

Heaven is sure not going to have alot of people if we go by this methond. And hell might just get a little too overcrowed. Lots and lots of Muslims (as well as people of all faiths) are freakin hypocrites. Many many Middle Easterners drink and womenize, but they pretend otherwise. The royal family of Saudi go to Spain, Ibiza every year to party, but force the Quran down the throats of norman Saudi citizens. And even though I dont think Jesus or Moses or Krishna are God I would not think twice about going to a church or temple to pray. You just pray to Allah instead. There is only one God, but different people call Him by different names. I dont think Allah minds if you called him Ram, Buddha or Jesus.

You want to know what we do that is "wrong"? Buddy you are a little too high and mighty about yourself and your religion. I shouldn't even really talk about us Ismailis, because I am simply not that educated. You will take whatever I say and probably stereotype all of us with that. Somethings that differentiate us from mainstream Muslims (by the way, I believe there are 25 Million Ismailis worldwide) is that we say Du'a three times a day instead of saying Namaz five times a day. We are not suppose to be eating pork, drink or gamble. We believe in the Quran. And we have an Imam (Aga Khan) that is the direct desendent of Hadrat Ali and Prophet Mohammed. And yes we do have the lineage, etc. to prove it. He provides us guidance on how to live our life. If you want to know more about it, I will provide you with a link when my wife comes home.

I cant even argue against this garbage. Cause according to this Mother Teresa is going to hell.

 

You're dumb.

 

The headscarf is a symbol of oppression and intolerance. I don't like seeing it being worn in my country, but whatever.

With regards to the other statement, no, but I am opposed to the highly intolerant and aggressive form of Islam you and adeelsiddiqui represent. I have no problem whatsoever with moderate muslims.