Islamic Presenation causes Contreversy in Houston Area Junior High

My objections are:

1. The parents were not notified that a religious group was giving a presentation on school ground and in a madatory manner.

2. That the school backed down to a religous group who strong armed their way into giving that presentation.

3. That the presentation itself may seem innocent but that there is actually a hidden agenda - and it is not just about understanding.

4. That other religions could now claim they need equal time.

5. That religion itself should be kept out of school unless it is done in the context of the current curriculum.

That schools should stick to teaching about the basics and leave religion and belief systems to be taught at home or in church/synagogue/mosques/caves/wherevers and that parents are the ones deciding where and what they are taught.

DD

 

Not really "propaganda" and I am not sure why it would be considered such (is that a positive or something?). If you've ever watched CNN or ABC or any other number of non-Muslim-dominated news media in this country you would have heard the phrase "Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world/in the U.S." at least a hundred times in the last ten years or so. Moreover, this is backed up by some secular research organizations who make the same claims (see below for links)

There is also this from the Muslim News Network, better known as CNN:

The point is it's not some "agenda" that's being promoted by Muslims, it's something that non-Muslims themselves have been saying for years, and is largely considered to have some truth to it since Muslims are far and away the most 'birth-happy' people in the world outside of the U.S. So again, why do you consider backed-up data that are largely borne out by statistics to be "propaganda"?

"Come on Tiger, there was an agenda" does not qualify as 'evidence' of such an agenda to preach Islam. Of course there was an agenda, which is the only reason CAIR exists in the first place, it's even stated on their website: countering Islamophobia by raising awareness and countering misinformation about Islam and Muslims. That's the work they do as a civil rights group.

CAIR keeps tallies of 'hate crimes' and reports EVERY SINGLE INCIDENT that may qualify as such to the FBI; that's their MO. They may not have requested an FBI inquiry into this (as they usually do, which would have spared the school a lot more trouble than otherwise) but I can guarantee you that they at least reported it for data-collection purposes, because they keep track of these things and they work with law enforcement agencies to track trends and see what they need to focus on the most in the work they do.

The fact that they were willing to spare the school district the trouble/public embarrassment in exchange for a mere half-hour informational session of very basic factoids about Islam and Muslims is something they should be commended for. Other civil rights organizations may not have been as 'understanding' or sensible and may have, instead, tried to cause a ruckus over such incidents and tried to bring every news camera in town to publicly humiliate school officials and their district (e.g. what Black civil rights organizations tend to do when they suspect a 'hate crime' may have taken place). So let's be fair here.

As I've said before, I agree with you that parents should have been notified, and I agree that we should keep religious preaching out of schools, but that doesn't include informational sessions/seminars designed to inform students (and parents, alike) about any major culture/ethnic group/religion in the world, which seems to be the case here.

 

::sighs::

Therein lies the problem, DaDa, which is that you're absolutely incapable of separating your own views on religion and sensitivity to it (particularly, Islam) from an 'objective' analysis of the situation that's actually being discussed. This is true in almost any thread that discusses religion that you decide to partake in.

Initially, you were insinuating that the CAIR representative was basically preaching or prosthelyzing the Islamic faith and its practices in a public school, and that students shouldn't be subjected to that. However, looking at the topics covered in the PP presentation, how can you even remotely make an argument that the Islamic "faith" was being propagated? How is discussing factoids about Islam (or any other religion or culture) considered 'preaching' of religion in a public forum? I'm with you on prayer, I'm with you if the seminar forced students to read the Koran or simulate Islamic prayer, but how the heck is telling students little factoids about the Islamic religion/culture and Muslims around the world Islamic 'propaganda'?

Your position is akin to insisting that only a 'White guy' is fit to give a seminar on Black culture or the Black church and Black history in America. These seminars are all done to promote racial tolerance in America, but what you're basically doing is singling out religious minorities for special treatment in fear of them 'propagating' their faith.

 

I am not the one running around asking to give a sensitivity lecture to students either.

I realize I am seriously biased against religion, I get that.....

But you have to understand that as a parent I would be outraged that this was done without my approval, or a discussion on the matter.

It is MY job to raise my kids, not the schools not the governments, and not some religion.

That is my core beef here......

Well that, and the fact that they school backed down to strong arm tactics of a religious group which is PCness gone bad.

DD

 

DELETE

 

Great.

DD

 

So that's a bad outcome that you would rather your kids don't have to be exposed to? You're against 'sensitivity training' and would rather have more kids running around painting racist graffiti or, worse, physically assaulting ethnic minorities because they're 'different' from them, all the while not doing anything about it (least of all hold harmless informational sessions about such cultural/religious practices to promote understanding)?

I know that's a loaded question, but I'm not sure what alternative you provide here. These informational sessions/seminars are literally the path of least resistance. The alternative is outright confrontation or, worse, retaliatory violence.

Ok, I don't have a problem with that, although we disagree on the details...

Hit the reply button too soon

 

I would rather the parents are involved in teaching their children about religion. I don't mind it in a sociological or historical setting, but ideology should be left out in the public school system, especially if it is by a particular biased group.

You call this hamrless, I don't see it as harmless at all, I see it as a biased group pushing their way into a school system preaching their biased agenda of a particular faith. Even if it is softened by a primarily "get to know us" theme.

The parents should have been notified BEFORE any assembly that has a particular religious group preaching it's agenda to the kids.

DD

 

I have no objection to my son learning about the basic tenets and foundations of all the major religions of the world in a fair and balanced manner.

There is a difference between learning about a religion and being actively converted.

Somehow I am reminded of the story of Adam & Eve. Some interpretations of the story see the "forbidden fruit" as knowledge.

 

Why just the major ones?

 

There are only so many days in a school year.

 

Then you open up the floodgates for equal time arguments. Instead of leaving some out, just leave all out.

 

Ding ding ding....we have a winner.

I mean then you would have to give equal time to someone talking about their views that all religions are based upon fallacy and mythos....and that would not be welcome I assure you.



DD

 

But we already do this. We already teach the major world religions and exclude a whole flock of beliefs. This has been done for a very long time. I don't know how they treat it in public schools in Arkansas, but in Texas you learn this during world history. You study what each of the major world religions believe. If I remember correctly we studied Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism and Islam. You limit it because these faiths have had greater impact on history than the various others...particuarly in a "survey" style world history course.

 

Perhaps you all don't remember high school or middle school. It's been a while for me too, but I remember all the historical learning I had to do about Christianity! Not only Christianity as a whole, but subsects - we were taught about the splits in the church, the basis of those splits, how the different sects in Christianity were different - what their beliefs were. Or how about learning about the crusades, always from the Christian point of view. It wasn't limited to history either - I remember having to read the Bible sold under the guise of it being a piece of literature or having to learn about Christ symbols in books like Old Man in the Sea!

Before all of you are quick to say keep religion out of the schools, you have to realize that it isn't. It's easy for Christians to say keep it out because Christianity is intertwined in what kids are taught, but the first hint of exposing them to another culture - in a purely fact based way and you all want to decry it? I know some have said there's a hidden agenda here, but maybe they're not familiar with the Council on American Islamic Relations - they're not trying to convert people. Their main purpose is to end the misconceptions about Islam and to improve relations.

In todays climate where there is so much hate towards the muslim world (and I'm not saying its unjustified) why in the world would we want to cry foul when we are educating kids about Islam. There are muslims in the US, the vast majority of them in fact, who don't want the US to be destroyed and don't agree with the way those in the middle east act - the way to support THOSE muslims is to educate and eliminate misinformation. If this was muslims leading a school prayer - fine, be upset...but hey I guess I didn't realize so many people wanted their kids to be ignorant...

 

so should teachers run all their lesson plans by you first? How about when they call in any guest lecturers, should they call you ahead of time? Maybe they should notify you when discussing evolution too, right? Teachers and schools teach their students plenty without discussing it with you first or getting your approval - this is no difference.

If you're that concerned about the schools or governments teaching your kids - hey, take them out, home school them - make sure they only get your point of view taught to them, it's your right. But when you send your kid to a school - you're signing up to have them taught by teachers who don't run everything by you first.

 

Hey Spiffi....these were not teachers, nor approved by anyone to talk to your or my kids....they were a religious group with an agenda.....

The curriculum is approved by the board of education, let's stick to that, and no I don't agree with all of it, but I do think having a general oversite is a good thing regarding public education.

And in this country Religion is NOT taught in schools per se, what impact religions have had on history is taught and how it has impacted politics etc, but you don't get into dogma in public schools and I think that is a great great thing.

Look, the principal was fired, so apparently there was enough uproar over this very topic.......

DD

 

It does if it is a mandatory meeting....parents should have been informed and given a chance to approve the agenda for their children....

But they weren't and that is my entire issue.

Personally I believe they should have had it as an after school meeting that was voluntary attendence AND invited parents.

DD

 

LOL, no surprise that DaDakota is keeping his legendary post count going with this tirade....the reason why I find this funny is because this is the same guy that said that Muslims worship a black stone in Mecca. Yes DD teach your kids about that .....you’ve said a lot more b.s than that, but this one just happens to stick out to me.

 

LOL - that Chris Bosh comes in support of his faith.

The Muslims do think a stone is an object of reverence.....

Link to Black stone of Mecca

Which according to Muslim tradition dates to the time of Adam and Eve...right?

"The reverence of the Black Stone evidently preceded the rise of Islam. The Semitic cultures of the Middle East had a tradition of using unusual stones to mark places of worship, a phenomenon which is reflected in the Hebrew Bible as well as the Qur'an."

Either way, I would not want that being taught in public schools either.

DD