Islamic Presenation causes Contreversy in Houston Area Junior High

Or maybe I am just not afraid of political correctness and speaking my mind.



DD

 

I wasn't there to witness the incident but obviously the principal felt that there was something involving a Muslim and as such it made sense that the students should learn more about Islam. Whether the original incident was blown way out of proportion, which I suspect it probably was, doesn't change the fact that this seminar didn't come out of nowhere or for some desire to start converting people to Islam. There was a context that this happened.

You're making the point here. If you argue consistency then every guest speaker should require parental permission. If you want to talk about strong arming what if the speaker is a businessman who has promised a donation to the school and is invited to speak about how he became successful? Is that strong arming the school as a donation is laid out as an enticement? Your argument regarding parental consent is a strawman when you differentiate between speakers. If you ask for consistency then you should be consistent.

 

The principal was reassigned because she was specifically asked not to include the student body and did it anyway.

If she would have sent out an email to parents or made the meeting voluntary instead of cow tying to a pushy religious group with an agenda, none of this would be an issue.

I said that every RELIGIOUS speaker, not every guest speaker....there is a reason that religion has been taken out of the public school system.

We shoud adhere to that.

DD

 

You can't ignore what a billion people practice, especially when there's some hateful ignorant stuff floating around about them.

It's the same as ignoring the Bible's impact on Western art and literature.

There's a difference between informing people and trying to convert.

 

According to all of the information that has been mentioned the principal asked to be reassigned and wasn't forced to. Perhaps I missed something but isn't that what the admin said?

First learning about religions hasn't been taking out of public schools. Last I checked there is no injunction against teaching what religions are about. There is an injunction against proselytizing but nothing about this situation, other than your opinion, would appear to be proselytizing. The second though your argument against having a religious speaker is that you think it is controversial and you think parents would disapprove. Well there are many speakers who may be addressing or representing something controversial. Should parents be informed ahead of time when an evolutionary scientists is invited to speak on evolution? Should parents be informed ahead of time if an ex-convict comes to speak about their prison experience as part of a scared straight program? If a politician comes to speak at a school shoudl parents be notified ahead of time incase they don't agree with that politicians stances?

Why draw the line at religion when there are many many controversial topics a guest speaker could talk about?

 

Hahahahahahaha

That's hilarious.

I know YOU know, but for everyone else's benefit, I said that they should say "I/we believe" and that the presentation should be titled accordingly.

These statements are statements of belief, not fact.

Oh and IMO, give all the religions a chance as long as they are within their limits. That is why there are committees and boards - to set those limits.

Censorship is not the answer DaDa. You should know.

Oh and believe me, you want your kids knowing this through school because you don't want them knowing this through some random guy on the street or internet.

Unless you want to protect your kids from walking out on the streets as well? and watching tv? and getting on the internet????

Isn't this exactly the philosophy that a certain oil-producing Middle Eastern country uses, but with Islamic rather than Agnostic principles at its base? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. NOW we're onto something. You want to run a dictatorship at home, but be in a democracy outside DaDa? Because that gives you freedom to control YOUR stuff, but loosens the reins other people have on YOUR stuff? Plus, you want to decide what you think God would want? It's all very convenient, isn't it?

 

Lack of information leads to ignorance. And in general people (not just Americans, but people in general) are ignorant towards those they don't understand. So in this sense, I think the video is fine.

I also think that parent's don't really know enough to discern whether something is "true" or not. Because everyone has their bias and prejudice.

That said, I think something this controversial has to be told to parents beforehand, if they were to show it at all. It's just the way things work.

Personally, I really feel there should be a religion class for a country like the US. And not in the biased "World History class" sense where 100 years of Rome get more pages devoted to it than Asia, America, and Africa combined. I think all religion needs to be known, so that we can't just be ignorant about it.

 

I was thinking about this situation and it reminded me of an experience that I had when I was a freshman in college.

Growing up in the somewhat macho environment of Texas I had almost no exposure to homosexuals and grew up with a sense of not just latent homophobia but overt in terms that I didn't like gays but did look upon them as not just being different but perverse. My family never talked about such things and I rarely had an experience to hear anything different. While a freshman my dorm as part of the freshman had a discussion group put on by the GLBT alliance and had a few gays and lesbians come and speak about their lives. Even though I had suspected that some people that I knew including a few highschool teachers were gay I had never really had the chance to sit and listen to gays talk about what their lives were like, how they found out they were gay and how they dealt with society. That experienced opened my eyes that being gay wasn't something to be feared and that gays weren't sexual deviants out to corrupt people but were people who happened to be different in one regard but were the same in most other regards.

The point about having a seminar like that and why the school thought it was important to make that part of freshman orientation was that going to a very diverse school like Cal with a large GLBT community they felt it was important that incoming students not only be prepared to deal with school work but also with the diverse culture that they were entering. In the same way considering the size of the Islamic community and how many issues our country is dealing with involving Muslims it should be important to teach something about what Muslims are about.

 

I know you're somewhat dense, but I refuse to think you're really that dense. Are you serious about the above quote? All five points you illustrated are FACTS about what MUSLIMS believe, which is what the presentation is about. The presentation is about MUSLIM beliefs, not universal facts.

Seriously, please tell me you're not that dense that you can't understand that simple concept. How is that "preaching" or "biased"? They're very simple/basic facts about Islam. That's what the presentation was about! It's facts about Islam and Muslims. The only one you can make an argument against is the "Islam is the fastest growing religion" part, but even that is not out of thin air, it's referenced by a number of leading organizations (news, research, think tanks, etc) like the ones I linked you to in an earlier post.

 

I still believe the parents should be notified and the presentation optional.

You are opening up a can of equal time for what everyone believes, and as I have stated MANY times......religion has no place in school......unless taught in context in a classroom.

And especially not from an organization with questionable ties to known terrorist organizations.

Also did you see where the event was between two students and had absolutely NOTHING to do with one of them being Muslim?

CAIR stuck their nose in and made it an issue.....CAIR = Al Sharpton....

DD

 

I would like to give a presentation in your school, only I want all the parents to attend also.

 

And I want $6 million dollars, maybe we can work something out.



And your post sort of proves the everyone wants a chance to speak about their views......point.

DD

 

OK- now that we have a starting point let's negotiate the price.

 

Agreed, we're waaaaaaaay past that at this point, so try not to rehash the same thing over and over again if there is no disagreement on the part about parental notification/involvement in the presentation.

The rest of your post is, once again, you changing the subject and moving the conversation in a different direction to avoid addressing the specific point raised/debated. So try to address that point first about how those five points you illustrated were "evidence" of bias and "preaching" or even up for debate. Your objection was to the fact that not EVERYONE believe the Koran is the word of God or that Allah is the one true God. But do you understand that the presentation was specifically about Islam and Muslim beliefs, not anyone else? Do you at least get that distinction?

 

Yes, I do get that. I misread that when I posted my contentions.

Doesn't change my opinion about CAIR forcing their way into a situation that did not even concern them by threatening a "hate crime" report, or my opinion about religious presentations in school, but I do concede that the PP was not inflammatory in any way as it reads.

DD

 

Finally, the admission.

So there are certain facts (such as what Muslims believe in) that you don't want your children to know?

Aren't you imposing yourself on everyone else? Maybe there should be schools where no religion is in the curriculum and some where religion is a part of the curriculum.

Crazy isn't it?

Then maybe schools focused on major religions, minor religions, etc... Then you can choose which school to send your child to.

Crazy right?

But then apparently you wouldn't be happy unless no religion was taught in any school apparently.

It's your responsibility to know the school well because there's no way the school will be able to satisfy each individual parent.

 

I agree with DaDakota but for different reasons.

I'm a Southern Baptist who gives money to my church. They can use it however they like as long as the contributions are not used for murdering people. I'm funny about that.

However, I do not want any of my federal, state or local tax dollars going to promote any religion, including my own, and particularly those that advocate violence against "non-believers."

History teachers can teach the role of religions in history without becoming an acolyte for any particular religion. If parents want their children to know about other religions, let them do it. When children become adults, they can investigate any religious belief that they choose.

If a religious school accepts absolutely no funds or assistance from federal, state or local government agencies, they can teach their own religion. However, I do draw the line at teaching children to violate any laws of the land. That should end the school's accreditation, so that the school's degrees are not recognized anywhere in the United States.

 

Thumbs that is what I have been saying since the beginning of the thread, you just said it better than I.

And this was an incident between two students....it had nothing at all to do with religion/racism, but since one of the students was Muslim, CAIR jumped in and threatened the Principal, who cratered in to BS - PC pressure and allowed the meeting after being told NOT to involve all the students.

CAIR, or any other religious organization SHOULD NOT BE GIVING PRESENTATIONS on their religion with a mandatory meeting...... PERIOD......

DD

 

DaDa,

Without going into everything, as a parent with three children I agree with you 100%

No place for this in a public school.

Being a Christian myself, I would feel the same way if a Pastor was brought in for the same type of presentation.

Jack

 

Would you be able to show me where your research came from in regards to the bolded statement?