Islamic Presenation causes Contreversy in Houston Area Junior High

What, that parental consent wasn't sought?

 

I understand this and like I said I would be cool with it as well I just see the other viewpoint on the subject matter. I can understand how somebody would be upset about this is what I am saying. I can understand that some parents want to know about and even limit what their children learn. I don't like it but it's their children.

I just think it should not be forced because the potential is there to open up a Pandora's box of everybody wanting their time and you make some parents furious because they weren't asked. You also will have parents who don't mind their kids going but some who do so you have the potential for even more tension. That's why I say just keep it out except in historical contexts.

I understand that discrimination happened but if it was that bad why not actually start with the parents by informing them of what's going on and giving them the chance to talk to their kids? If you continue to see the discrimination, then suggest to the parents that the students attend a forum on discussing the religion and people of the religion with people who are experts or are followers of that religion.

 

Come on..don't play the victim card. You make your opinions very well known here and you rarely hold your tongue. I'm sure you feel like the king of restraint for not blasting what a lot of people hold dear here, because I see you keep saying, "you don't really wanna know what i think," in some vaguely threatening way. I'm not calling you out for having a difference of opinion...my opinion just differs.

 

Agree, we differ in opinion......

I want the parents notified before something like this, you are ok with the administrators making the call.

Fine...moving on.

DD

PS. I am holding my tongue, more than you know.

 

you forget that you haven't in the past...i know exactly how deluded you think i am, and i still don't care.

 

I see your point, but disagree with the perspective.

The Pandora’s Box is not in providing presentations to our children, but in allowing parents to have the right of prior approval to determine whatever your children learn.

Let's peek into that box,

Evolution: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; it’s only a theory and we still have monkeys around so it must be wrong.
Pythagorean Theorem: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; it’s only a theory and his religious beliefs were heretical.
WWII: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; I don’t want my child to be exposed to Nazi propaganda.
Vietnam War: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; my child’s uncle was killed there and it would upset him to hear about it.
The Holocaust: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; it didn’t happen.
Algebra: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; it’s useless in the real world.
Cat in the Hat: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; Dr. Seuss was an idiot.
Sign Language: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; my child can hear and doesn’t need it.
Ethics: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; I prefer to instill my own sense of ethics to my child.
Civil War: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; the South shall rise again.
Tom Sawyer: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; they use the “N” word in that book.
Chaos Theory: I want to be notified, in advance, whenever this is taught; it’s only a theory and we got enough chaos at home.

This list could go on forever.

Feel free to add your own…

 

I don't think anyone is deluded, it is not about personal choices AT ALL.

I respect people and their beliefs, I don't agree with many but who am I to tell anyone else what to believe.

My issues are with religion in general, and what I think it is really all about, and not necessarily the people that are the believers.

DD

 

right...so you say things like, "it' just a bunch of 40 year old men trying to feel better about death," or liken it to a child's belief in santa claus to communicate that respect.

we've been through this before. you're right that it's better to move on, probably.

 

You keep failing to address the fundamental differences in what you are talking about....this was not a class taught by teachers, of an approved curriculum, this was a religious group coming into the school and speaking to the kids without parental consent.

There is a reason that this is not welcome in our school system.....and the fact that the principal caved into the CAIR group shows a serious lack of leadership.

Bottom line, parents should have been notified.

 

Yeah, I do sort of let little bits out, but I don't see how that is offensive, it is my belief and does not reflect on anyone elses.

And honestly, while I disagree with most every religion and think all of them were created by man, and that they are all just guesses, I do find some of them to be worse than others.

DD

 

Because it presumes to know something about my faith that it clearly doesn't. And you won't bother to listen to what it's really about because, it's all political and you've already made up your mind. Having your mind made up isn't a problem if you're at least respectful enough to listen or pretend to. It's when someone blasts out opinions based on what they THINK someone else believes that it becomes less about respect...and then failing to consider how that might be offensive. That's what gets you temporarily banned. Not your opinions.

 

Most schools have approved courses and subject matter in school and parents can be informed of this if they request the information, after all their tax dollars are paying for it. If they do not agree with it, they can home-school their children, send them to another school and so on. So parents already have the right to choose what their children learn. My girlfriend's cousin has her child enrolled at a Catholic private school for this very reason.

 

But are you not presuming that I don't know the faith? It is not like I am devoid of any knowledge, I was raised Presbatyrian, saved as a Baptist, and then married as a Methodist.

It is only later in life as I started having theological discussions with a good friend of mine that is an ordained minister that I started to question what I was taught, then researched it and reached a far different conclusion than what was in the Bible.

I guess some would say I lost my faith, but to me, I feel like I actually got a good look at it and it did not hold water.

And I do think some religions are far worse than others......so many contradictions in teachings in all of them....it is just mind boggling.

However, having a realistic discussion about it is not going to change anyone's opinion.

I have heard a lot of the arguments and can understand how some people have serious faith, and as long as they find peace with it, that is great.

I just wish that PEACE was the ulimate goal of all religions.....but I think some are more about getting everyone else to believe as they do......which is not a good thing, IMHO.

DD

 

I'm honestly not trying to convert you. God forbid you'd even think that. I don't think I've done anything to create that perception.

Your presumptions about Christianity, though, no matter what your past, is not founded in a Christianity I understand. For example, when I hear you compare the Gospels to books "revealed" to one person, then I think you're seeing what you want to see and I doubt seriously you've ever read them. In no way do the Gospels claim to be some solitary revelation to a man under a tree or in a cave. They're more like, "holy crap, this is what happened and we have no idea what the freak it means." And then you see that played out in Acts with the early church trying to grasp what's happened. When you quote right-wing dogmatic Chrisitian websites to attack Islam and spinning skull websites to attack Christianity I see you reaching to ridiculous extremes to "prove your point." Mix in the Santa Claus and 40 year old men trying to avoid death comments, and I think it's anything but respectful. And you know I'm not alone in thinking that way, because you see posts in here of people who aren't believers saying, "come on, dada...it's enough already." And you know you've been banned for that stuff in the past.

I'm not trying to play comparative religion here...but in the same way I think it's disrespectful for me to tell a Muslim that we believe the same thing (which is choosing to fail to hear what he/she actually believes so we can feel good about it) I think it's disrespectful to put assumption on belief while failing to listen to what someone actually believes.

 

Here is a post on the Chronicle that nails it...IMHO.

Link

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This presentation would have been fine by me for my kids to see IF:

they (and I) would have been told in advance what was going to be presented and IF:

they could have opted out of seeing it just like some children in school choirs will ask that they not be made to sing traditional Christmas music and IF:

there had also been a similiar presentation of other faiths/religions, such as a whole other PowerPoint presentation on Baptists, and another on Catholics, and another on Lutherans, and on and on everyday, till all real schoolwork was neglected in order to give all religions/faiths equal time in the name of diversity, OR:

instead, how about just concentrating on real schoolwork, involving reading, writing and 'rithmetic and leave the faith-based discussions to the churchs and communities.

I'm sorry if that sounds callous, but after seeing my child's social studies book a couple of years ago for sixth grade, where almost an entire chapter was devoted to teaching about Islam/Muslims and only a couple of paragraphs was given to Christianity, I do not welcome the efforts by CAIR to further "teach" my children anything.

When schools are "teaching" about the customs surrounding Eid and Ramallah, and yet the word "Christmas" and "Easter" cannot be used in any school context, there's a problem.

When schools are celebrating Cinco de Mayo, and yet not celebrating San Jacinto Day, there's a problem.

I'm all for cultural and religious diversity, but not to the detriment of subverting certain ones and elevating others, all in the name of political correctness and diversity.

And, I'm all for doing this outside the context of the public school day schedule. Kids have enough to concentrate on during the day, just trying to learn the basics required of them to pass the almighty NCLB TAKS test. This exercise in diversity could have been offered before school, after school, or as an after school "event" or club meeting. To subject kids to sit through this, without any other religions/faiths presented smacks of prosletizing in its worst form.

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I completely agree....

DD

 

Were those other religions subjected to recent hate crime activity also?

 

The problem is that a lot of the Gospels have been edited and translated from their original texts, and as we have discussed before some of the Books were left completely out of the cannonized text.

It leaves too much open to interpetation, for instance did Judas turn on Jesus and turn him in? Because in the book of Judas, he claims that Jesus asked him to turn him in....big difference.

Small article on the Book of Judus

This to me makes it political, because at the time of the Nicene council there were TONS of different interpetations of Christianity, and many were basically whiped out (primarily the Gnostic versions)......this to me smacks of politics...and agenda....

What about calling Mary Magdalene a w****? When there are documents that make it seem like she might have been Jesus's wife/lover etc...

I think the words of Jesus are awesome, and he was a great great man, but the people that have followed him have used their own agenda to shape the religion he started and to me it is not even close to path he was preaching.

DD

 

First, I don't believe in the term "hate crime"....there is no special crime for hate, it is what it is.....crime is crime.

2nd.....so catch the people who did it, and punish them.

3rd - there is a reason that religion is left out of school dogma, people of the Muslim faith may not understand this because for them Islam is a way of life and that includes schooling......which is why the Muslim Arab countries are falling further and further behind because science contradicts a lot of the Koran...

Religion should not be getting in the way of science and the pursuit of truth.


DD

 

I'm really not trying to convince you...though, I'll point out that NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SUGGEST MARY MAGDALENE WAS A PROSTITUTE. Nowhere. I think it's disingenous for you to give greater credit to gnostic gospels written by Greeks than the Gospels written by hebrews a hundred years earlier....the gnostics sought to impose Platoism onto an offshoot of Judaism. In the ways they were successful, I think that's where you see the Church preaching something different than what Christ taught...completely out of Jewish context.

I agree wholeheartedly that a lot of the Church is preaching something very different than what Christ preached. Who says that more here than me?? Maybe rhester?? But there are churches that absolutely preach what Jesus taught. Or at least try.

 

OK, were those other religions subjected to crimes necessitating a presentation to ameliorate misinformation and misunderstanding that may have caused the crimes?