Fair point, but my point is true that all branches of militant islam is an issue to deal with...and if they engage in activities which contribute to the global threat and movement of islamic driven terror, then they are a problem... I never stated NOT to leverage one side over another, and I think that is cunning.
I think we need to consider what sort of war Iran and Israel might fight. If its about occupying and controlling power Israel can't defeat Iran, and vice versa. As you note Israel cannot project a numerical military force around Iran and even if they could they are fall to small numerically to realistically occupy Iran. I mean they have trouble occupying less than half of Lebanon which is several times smaller than Iran. Even though Iran has allies and proxies around Israel those proxies aren't militarily or numerically strong enough to defeat the Israeli army in Israel. Alliances of military forces far stronger than Hezbollah couldn't do it. Iran itself couldn't deploy signifigant force to confront Israel as there are several countries who mistrust Iran in the way. Even the somewhat ally Syria would likely not allow a massive Iranian military deployment through its territory. If we are talking about a battle of all out survival where Israel or Iran don't care whether they take over each other's territory just killing as many of each other as possible then Israel has the edge. Israel can't send a lot of troops to Iran but they dont need to. They have nukes and the bombers to get them there. Iran at the moment doesn't and even if they had nukes they don't have a reliable delivery system. They could try to smuggle a nuke to Hezbollah or Hamas but a nuke, and especially a crude one, is a far different matter than a suicide vest. On top of that given Iran has many enemies too giving a nuke to a third party runs the risk of it being lost and ending up in someone who might use it on Iran's hand. I love the Middle East [/QUOTE]
That is the easiest way of saying you aren't a bigot by showing that you are willing to associate with them.
Years ago I knew someone who had determined that when people say, "I don't hate x my best friend is x." it usually indicates that they actually are total and complete racists. I there was one or two All in the Family episodes where Archie Bunker said something similar. So when people come with the “my best friend is a…” line, I just go ahead and pencil them in by default. I suggest that people keep this in mind and pay attention. It will be enlightening and entertaining. That is unless you’ve ever used the “my best friend is a…” line, in which case this will not make an ounce of sense to you and you will be feeling slightly annoyed right about now.
BTW, I find it incredibly odd that someone would say there is a lack of connection to Nazi Germany with militant Islam...We know militant Islam is a global problem because the byproduct is terroristic threats...We know the leaders of militant islam have voiced their feeling on the destruction of jews,..(much akin to the leaders of Nazi Germany) Such threats are encouraged to attack civilians...and dare I say where did militant Islam derive from? The answer can vary according to factors such as your personal relation on the matter or other,...but after reading,....one thing is quite clear,...yes very much so is that there was a person named Hassan al Banna... Now ol' boy Banna liked Hitler very, very much...You could say "inspiration"....In fact he liked him so very, very much and his way of thinking that he wrote letters to Hitler...I figure Hitler liked how the founder of the Muslim brotherhood thought as well. They likely had a lot in common you could say... “Mr. al-Banna was a devout admirer of a young Austrian writer named Adolph Hitler. His letters to Hitler were so supportive that when Hitler came to power in the 1930s he had Nazi intelligence make contact with al-Banna to see if they could work together,” Loftus said. Hitler had al-banna establish a spy network for Nazi Germany throughout Arabia. www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=1822 Before we go further one thing is important to know...The muslimbrotherhood is a movement, and derivatives of the muslim brotherhood is based across the middle-east region...Not confined to one state or two... Now we know the muslim brotherhood did some really bad things, man. Really bad. For example, in the the 1940's to 1970's they were involved in some assasination thingys...The muslim brotherhood helped to develop alQaeda's top people...The muslim brotherhood advocates suicide bombing on civilians... The muslim brotherhood has even enabled the creation of violent political parties, such as say...hamas (which charter calls for the destruction of Israel btw) Not only that, but the muslim brotherhood even has helped bridge the gap of differing religious branches...Let's introduce the 2nd ol' boy...meet Navab Safavi... Now Safavi was this ol' boy impressed with the muslim brotherhood movement business. He realized the movement as something to institute in his home country of ...you guessed it Iran!... It was called the Fadayan-e Islam founded in 1946. The idea was to implement an islamic state in Iran...Now this #2 boy did some nasty stuff too...some assasination thingys to political leaders who didn't have the best interests of the "islamic state" in mind...Well pretty soon, the founder of this movement was sentenced to a firing squad... But no matter, to this day in Iran.. ol boy Navvab Safavi is considered a martyr...A hero, if you will for envisioning the Islamic state! He even has a street named after him in Tehran square... Why pick on Iran if the negative aspects of the muslim brotherhood and backwards philosophy is regional? I am glad you asked...(not to take a page from the Islamic militants' book, but the reasoning is to cut off the part of the snake most dangerous,...the head) The middle-east has many dangerous parts to contend with, and there is a militant islamic movement largely inspired by or related to the muslim brotherhood... Iran seems to be the one country which best exemplifies the muslim brotherhood's inspiration and ideals...
Again that has nothing to do with modern day Iran. Unlike Nazi Germany militant Islam targets and kills far more many Muslims than it does Christians or Jews. In addition relatives of U.S. presidents gave far more valuable material support to Hitler, but that doesn't mean it is appropriate to compare the U.S. to Nazi Germany even though despite that tie, and the fact that the U.S. started a war and has taken over another country just like Nazi Germany did, the two aren't really comparable.
Interesting...thank goodness admiring letters were not sent, and neither did we decide to commit to an alliance with Hitler,...that would have been most demonstrative of connecting with the Nazi movement...I would think... Unfortunate it is that this muslim brotherhood has the regard it does and the man himself in the region... The legacy of Al-Banna is thus still present, and will continue to shape the destiny of Arab societies in the new millennium. www.youngmuslims.ca/biographies/display.asp?ID=8
The Brotherhood has been described as both unjustly oppressed and dangerously violent... Among the Brotherhood's more influential members was Sayyid Qutb. Qutb was the author of one of Islamism's most important books, Milestones, which called for the restoration of Islam by re-establishing the Sharia and by using "physical power and Jihad for abolishing the organizations and authorities of the Jahili system,"[12] which he believed to include the entire Muslim world.[13] While studying at university, Osama bin Laden was influenced by the religious and political ideas of several professors with strong ties to the Muslim Brotherhood including both Sayyid Qutb and his brother Muhammad Qutb.... The MB goal, as stated by Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna was to reclaim Islam’s manifest destiny, an empire, stretched from Spain to Indonesia.... On the issue of women and gender the Muslim Brotherhood interprets Islam quite strictly. Its founder called for "a campaign against ostentation in dress and loose behavior," "segregation of male and female students," a separate curriculum for girls, and "the prohibition of dancing and other such pastimes... The movement is immensely influential in many Muslim countries, and where legally possible, it often operates important networks of Islamic charities, creating a support base among Muslim poor... The Islamic Resistance Movement, or Hamas, founded in 1987 in Gaza, is a wing of the Brotherhood... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood
Again expressing a belief by one crackpot and having the ability to carry it out are two very different things. militant Islam poses the greatest threat, not to Jews or Christians, but other Muslims. That is very different than Nazi Germany and the holocaust. Furthermore The Brotherhood is based not in Iran, but in Egypt. The President of Egypt is an ally of the Bush administration. So it doesn't really add to the case that Iran and Ahmadinejad are similar to Nazi Germany.
This I know, but my reading tells me that this movement has inspired movements elsewhere such as in Iran,...which of course is referring to the Fadayan-e Islam movement, a pretext to the movement of the militant Islamic state...
Because the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is influenced by events elsewhere. That doesn't help make a comparison that Iran is a similar threat to Nazi Germany.
O yea, remember#2 boy?...Navab Safavi was an associate and ally of Ayatollah Khomeini who went on to become a figure in the Iranian Revolution of 1979. Safavi is thought to have influenced Khomeini with the ideas of the Brotherhood... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood most damning isn't it? the connection of the muslim brotherhood with Hitler and the influence the muslim brotherhood has had...
an associate who was thought to have influence doesn't really make the case either. I know there are those in the Islamist movement that admire Hitler's ideals. That doesn't make Iran comporable with Nazi Germany. Allow me to show you how propaganda works. Nazi Germany had an army capable of invading and occupying other nations and carrying out Hitler's plan - So does the U.S. Iran does not. Nazi Germany had a leader who seized more power for it's office than the predecessor. So does the U.S. Iran has not. Nazi Geramany did launch a first strike invasion and occupation of another nation. So did the U.S. Iran has not. There are marches all the time of Nazi and neo-Nazi groups in the U.S. That is not true of Iran. Of course I'm not saying that the U.S. is like Nazi Germany, but with propaganda it's easy to make that claim about anyone.
How could you not influence when you are an associate and an ally? Both envisioned the Islamic state...Such a vision was derived from the muslim brotherhood movement...
Enter #3...This ol boy, you will find probably more interesting than the first two mentioned....His name: Sayyid Qtub. why was he inportant?...He was an author considered a leading intellectual of the muslim brotherhood movement... This cat was something else too...he was so inspirational and influential, that he impacted a school of thought called Qutbism... Now you know there was an alliance between the founder of the muslim brotherhood and Hitler, that much is clear, but we haven't yet talked about this movement's influenced school of thought which affects militant islam... It's important, not because it shows the same thought process which enabled Nazi Germany to spread in ideology, but because it demonstrates a similar way of thinking which is as big a threat... if allowed to grow the way the ideology of Nazi Germany was allowed to. Guess what?, we are gonna talk about it...
There are people I work with who are associates but it doesn't mean I'm like they are. The desire for an Islamic state doesn't mean that Iran is in anyway like Nazi Germany.
Sayid Qutb -1906-1966...To say his teachings did not influence Islamic militants is akin to saying the sky is not blue... Now ol' boy Qutb actually came to the U.S., and he didn't like what he saw. He didn't like the...get this...he didn't like the sports, the individual freedom, the choices, the hair cuts, or the mixing of sexes...His revoltness of this idea grew to a wrath few could ever feel... He joined the muslim brotherhood in the 1950's, and he had an ability to influence through the written word...In fact, it was during this time of the 1950's that he had 2 writings of significance... 1 translates to "milestones",...the other to "In the shade of the Quar'an"...and the impact to those who had followed the muslim brotherhood movement had to be great when he wrote this after he was appointed a member of the highest branch in the brotherhood... Now I know what you may be thinking,...How did his writings impact militant Islam of today?...Well do you know the #2 Al Qaeda guy?...Ayman Zawahiri?...he was a student of Qutb's brother... The fact is Qutb was a part of the muslim brotherhood, which fostered militant islam to culture,....and his writings contributed to the mindset....The same mindset which inspired Navab Safavi, an associate and ally of Ayatollah Khomeini ... Now a "mindset" is also referred as "a school of thought", and Qutb's contribution was a style inferred from his writings called Qutbism...Yes, he had his own school of thought!... Looking at Milestones was telling because he argued that anything non-Islamic was most evil and corrupt...This ol boy had some marbles missing or something... Qutb's intense dislike of the West not withstanding, some of his ideas are strongly reminiscent of European fascism: the decline of contemporary Western civilization and "infertility" of democracy, inspiration from an earlier golden age and desire to restore its glory with an all-encompassing (totalitarian) social, political, economic system, victimhood from malicious foreign and Jewish conspiracies, and violent revolution to expel alien influences and reestablish the power and international domination of the nation/community http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma'alim_fi-l-Tariq So, in summary we have a thought process that is really gosh darn similar to the thought process which enabled and allowed the Nazi movement to spread the way it did...The similarity runs deep...apparently. So not only is their a similarity based on views towards Jews and intolerance, and a history of World War 2 collaboration between the very founder of the muslim brotherhood (which has spawned hamas, and influenced those that have enabled the islamic state to become what it is),....there is also a disturbing rationale that is stated independently to be :"strongly reminiscent of European fascism"... Clearly evident, and I implore others to learn from the past lest it be an insult to those that have suffered, and died and dealt with all that business of the holocaust...
Yeah I thought about that too. I mean on an internet message board how can you actually prove you have such and such friends? For that matter what qualifies as friend? If a guy in the office is X and I say hello to him when I see him but otherwise don't socialize should he be considered a friend?
I know that Al Zawahari is from the Brotherhood. Did you know that the Al-Qaeda where Al Zawahari is the number two man are more likely to target Iranian Shi'ites and other Muslims than Americans or Jews? So again none of this goes to show that Iran is like Nazi Germany in the 30's. I'm not saying Iranian support of terrorism is bad, or that Al-Qaeda isn't bad. But I think the best way to combat them is not by going hysterical, and comparing them to Nazi Germany. Let's be realistic in our claims about them, and then go after them in a variety of ways.
