Well, if that's true, that we're not looking for scoring out of our 4, what exactly is the argument for Mo-T? If our 4's not a scorer, we want a guy who rebounds, plays defense and passes well, and doesn't need to score to contribute...does that sound like Taylor tanyone? If so, please explain it to me...That's what Taylor does: score. Webber is way better at every other element, be it rebounding, passing, whatever...I'm not against going with Taylor, but the 'don't need a scorer at 4 now' argument just doesn't hold water for Taylor... It's not about scoring as much as it is touches. A power forward who will demand the ball a lot and needs it in his hands to be effective won't let Francis, Cat, and Eddie get the touches they need to. Griffin is a monster on the glass and at blocking shots. We don't necessarily need a power forward to do the same thing. The ideal PF right now would be someone like Mo-- he has great chemistry with the team, he plays pretty good straight up defense against some of the bigger power forwards, but more importantly, he can score when you need him to. We need another big man like Mo that can score, and we need a good defensive big man at center. But my concern with getting Webber isn't about scoring; it's about touches. Webber is going to need the ball to be effective, he'll want it, and he'd probably complain like Quitten if he didn't get it. Mo has the ability to score and defend, things we need, but won't consistently command that Francis, Cat, and Eddie give it up. ------------------ The Mo Taylor Fan Site "Basketball players win basketball games. Athletes win track meets."-- Shane Battier Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! Cat's Mock Draft [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited June 28, 2001).]
...and Griffen will punch him in the mouth! We need to split Hakeems billions in cap space between Moochie, Mo, and Dream, careful to pay both Dream and Mo as much or more than Cato because I don't think Cato's going anywhere. Shandon will be asking too much money to split 20 minutes a game with Moochie. I wonder what that Walt Williams deal was a couple of weeks ago? Will Langhi or Bullard have to go too? Do we need 4 guys who can play the three even if Griffen and Bullard can play some minutes at the 4? I would even entertain dumping Thomas and keeping Bullard to be the third 4 (behind Taylor and Griffen, I know someone will ask)on the depth chart if he weren't 10 years younger than Bull. Okay, I've rambled enough, what the hell am I doing up so early if I don't have to work? j ------------------ Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb! [This message has been edited by silent j (edited June 28, 2001).]
Det, Those are pretty reasonable numbers for Griffen his first year...I was expecting 14 & 8 with about 1.5 blocks. Jag, It is different. Mo is a scorer, sure, but he is a complementary scorer. Webber wants his 25-27 ppg, with plenty of setups. I do not see that blending well with this team. Mo can go in an out of the offense, will not take up the low-block if Griffen wants to go down there, and he will not complain. What we get at center is most important now, more than Webber. ------------------ Squatting on old bones and excrement and rusty iron, in a white blaze of heat, a panorama of naked idiots stretches to the horizon. Complete silence-their speech centers are destroyed-except for the crackle of sparks and the popping of singed flesh as they apply electrodes up and down the spine. White smoke of burning flesh hangs in the motionless air. A group of children have tied an idiot to a post with barbed wire and built a fire between his legs and stand watching with bestial curiosity as the flames lick his thighs. His flesh jerks in the fire with insect agony. [This message has been edited by rimbaud (edited June 28, 2001).]
Cat and Rim; I agree with each of your points to a degree. 1) Cat, when I said that I could be in favour of Taylor, my reasons for doing so are loyalty, team chemistry, and the fact that I think he'd blend well with Griffin. But about the touches, I go back to my second point about Griffin being 19, and how much of a load do you want him to carry right off the bat...but, I can see your point to a degree...However, I think that acquiring Webber would be sufficient reason to cut into Cat and Stevie's FGA's to a degree, and the attention Webber would command and his passing ability would give them higher quality touches than all the 1 on 1 stuff last year...Rudy loves the inside out game, and I think that Webber gives us that way more than Taylor, exploits it better, and while I see Griffen doing that too in the future, I'm not ready to say he's there now to the point of turning down a difference maker like C-Webb...And then there's the rebounding aspect which, while I agree Griff's gonna help with, Webber's superiority to Mo in this regard would also help a lot. So, while I do see the touches as being somewhat of a point, i think the up-side easily outweighs it, and I think the oportunities Webber would create, through double teams and passing, would more than make up for the cut into overall touches. Plus, he's legit, and I think Cat and Steve would respect that enough to sacrifice a bit. Also, our offense clicked best last year when Dream was in fine form, ans if Webber's here, those touches go to him, cause Cato/Collier certainly aren't going to take that many. To me, if you're going to argue Taylor, it really comes down to loyalty and chemistry, and that I'll give you. ------------------
I think the Rockets are going to be set with Taylor and someone else at center (Hakeem or Jackson). Griffin is going to be a four later on. So I don't think Webber is going to be a must get now. Hey I got 100 posts. ------------------ Stevierebel
Does anyone think we may have a shot at Antonio Davis? He would fit at center I think, but doesn't Orlando have the inside track? I heard last night that Portland may want to dump Dale Davis, he may work too, but we have some ex blazers they probably don't want in Cato and Williams and D. Davis is not a free agent. Todd Macullaugh (or however you spell it) is a free agent too, but a team should not spend too much money on a backup center (thought the same thing when Cato was signed). Maybe 1 Davis or the other plus Machullaugh. Marc Jackson? I would like to see the Rockets sign either a good younger center like A. Davis, or a semi decent low cost center like Macullaugh or D. Davis to play with Dream and Cato. Is any of this possible because I don't know? I may not even be making sense.
Does anyone think we may have a shot at Antonio Davis? He would fit at center I think, but doesn't Orlando have the inside track? I heard last night that Portland may want to dump Dale Davis, he may work too, but we have some ex blazers they probably don't want in Cato and Williams and D. Davis is not a free agent. Todd Macullaugh (or however you spell it) is a free agent too, but a team should not spend too much money on a backup center (thought the same thing when Cato was signed). Maybe 1 Davis or the other plus Machullaugh. Marc Jackson? I would like to see the Rockets sign either a good younger center like A. Davis, or a semi decent low cost center like Macullaugh or D. Davis to play with Dream and Cato. Is any of this possible because I don't know? I may not even be making sense.
Does anyone think we may have a shot at Antonio Davis? He would fit at center I think, but doesn't Orlando have the inside track? I heard last night that Portland may want to dump Dale Davis, he may work too, but we have some ex blazers they probably don't want in Cato and Williams and D. Davis is not a free agent. Todd Macullaugh (or however you spell it) is a free agent too, but a team should not spend too much money on a backup center (thought the same thing when Cato was signed). Maybe 1 Davis or the other plus Machullaugh. Marc Jackson? I would like to see the Rockets sign either a good younger center like A. Davis, or a semi decent low cost center like Macullaugh or D. Davis to play with Dream and Cato. Is any of this possible because I don't know? I may not even be making sense.
Does anyone think we may have a shot at Antonio Davis? He would fit at center I think, but doesn't Orlando have the inside track? I heard last night that Portland may want to dump Dale Davis, he may work too, but we have some ex blazers they probably don't want in Cato and Williams and D. Davis is not a free agent. Todd Macullaugh (or however you spell it) is a free agent too, but a team should not spend too much money on a backup center (thought the same thing when Cato was signed). Maybe 1 Davis or the other plus Machullaugh. Marc Jackson? I would like to see the Rockets sign either a good younger center like A. Davis, or a semi decent low cost center like Macullaugh or D. Davis to play with Dream and Cato. Is any of this possible because I don't know? I may not even be making sense.
We could offer Jackson a crap load of money, but is he a restricted FA ? That is who I want. I wouldn't mind C-webb, but I think a guy similar to Antonio Davis would be better for us. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
Here's a possibility...S&T Shandon for a center such as D.Davis. We might also have to throw in KT, but do we really need a backup PF anymore? Griffen can slide over to the 4, and we have Langhi, TRock, and Walt to play SF while he's at the 4. Just checked the salaries, and if we sign Shandon to about $5 mil per year and throw in KT it would work for Davis. Of course, this is all if we cannot get Dream back...then we have the cap room to do a trade like this and re-sign Mo and Moochie. ------------------ Who needs teachers? I can learn my own self. DieHard Mock Time
While I'm thrilled with the players the Rockets picked up from the draft, Webber is still needed on the Rockets. Yes, we did draft some versatile players, but they have not yet proved themselves in an NBA game. Webber has been in the league for a while now, and has proved that he is quality material. Hopefully the Rockets will continue to pursue Webber, but if all else fails, MoTay will be available. Cod ------------------ The Number One Cuttino Mobley Fan! Don't hate..Congratulate!
Whats this deal with Walt Williams somebody (silentj??) mentioned above. I agree with not needing Webber anymore. Will anyone here be angry if we do get him though? No. On paper, Francis, Mobley, Griffin, Webber, and anyone at center could win the title. However, as Portland's woes have shown us, it could also spell disaster. We don't really need Webber. Current players to keep: Francis Mobley Griffin Taylor Moochie Langhi Morris Collier Players to possible keep/get: Hakeem Walt Raef LaFrentz (acquiring him via trade would be very helpful in my opinion, even more so then resigning Hakeem). Players I no longer want: Cato - he needs no more chances, he SUCKS, SUCKS, SUCKS. Everybody say it in unison. IMO Cato is the worse move the organization has made in the last 5 years, signing him to that long contract. I mean, even MAtt Maloney would have more than one good game a year. Anderson - we just dont need him anymore. Morris provides what Anderson could bring, but more boards and just as good on defense. Morris aside, we may still keep Walt for one last year and Langhi is improving. With Griffin holding the starting SF spot, Shandon is expendable, especially since our two backcourt studs put in almsot 40 minutes a game each. The only way to keep Shandon is if he agrees to be underpaid again to play backup shooting guard. I dont think he will. Package him in a trade, perhaps for LaFrentz. Lineup I want to see next season: C - LaFrentz, Collier PF- Taylor, KT, Griffin SF- Griffin, Langhi, Morris SG- Mobley, Francis PG- Francis, Moochie That's ten players. Extra bench/IR players could be Walt, Bullard, Carlos Rogers That team may not win the championship next year, but I could see them even moving up for home court in the playoffs and competing for WC and NBA championship in 2-3 years. ------------------ I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins. [This message has been edited by JayZ750 (edited June 28, 2001).]
You have to ask yourself... Is this team going to really have a chance to win the title next year or the year after with Webber? Maybe, but read on. Although I did favor pushing hard to get Webber, will he be around in 3 years or so (look at his history) when Griffin is possibly dominating the NBA game? If not we may again be searching for a power forward (unless he moves to the 4). If we could sign MoT long term, and get a solid defensive center then we have a young nucleus that potentially could be together for a long time and become a DYNASTY. I would rather be a DYNASTY than a contender. I am in favor of signing Mo and Dream, or trying to get a solid defensive center to replace Dream. If we sign Hakeem, we may again have cap room when he retires. I will not gouge my eyes out if we get Webber though! ------------------
Other post went through ------------------ [This message has been edited by BayouRocket (edited June 28, 2001).]
No, Webber's not neccesary, and I'm already worried about touches as it is, so adding Webber is something I would steer clear of. With Griffin, you have a guy who's going to make everyone better and create depth on this team. Mo's rebounding is not so much of an issue anymore, and you have a guy who can lock down the better 3's in the league. Webber's rebounding is not GREAT, and though I like his passing skills, we already have some decent passing bigmen on this team in Kenny and Mo. With Griffin, the number of different lineups is endless. Shandon's gone. There's no need for a backup 2 with Francis on the team. Most likely Bullard will retire, and Langhi or Morris will be on the IR. I could be wrong about that though, and maybe Rudy finds a way to use both of them on the floor. He has so much flexibility now. Watch out for Kenny Thomas, who is going to be a GREAT player with the new rules coming into effect. ------------------ The Smurfs were Communists
IMO, the Rockets do need a backup 2 though I do not think Shandon Anderson is that guy. He totally suffers from delusions of grandeur. We need Joe Forte, or his skills w/ less exposure, at the backup 2 guard. If Cuttino or Francis get an ankle sprain, you have an issue now. Walt can spell someone at the two, maybe... but the Rockets need a longer term solution. Langhi is pointless now. Letting go of him would be painful, as was letting go of Bryce Drew. Unfortunately Langhi is not going to get the time to develop anymore on this team. I actually like him more than Terence Morris, but... I'd have to assume that Morris is eventually going to displace him... and that slot would be better used bringing back Matt Bullard, IMO. BTW, I don't know how Webber and Griffin would get along. It was interesting thinking of old-arse Webber next to Cuttino and Steve. Would he fit well w/ a 19 year old? If he doesn't come, yawn. If he does come, ask yourself if you would pay Mo Taylor 5 more million dollars a year for 7 extra rebounds per game, 3 or 4 extra assists per game. If I were the GM, I would. It's a calculated risk: the Rockets have the money, Webber is a better player than Mo Taylor, you're removing Sacramento as a competitor for a playoff birth, he'll take rebounding pressure off of Cato and make him look like a defensive stud, you can always trade him later, blah blah blah. IMO, if you'd rather have a frontcourt of Eddie Griffin, Mo Taylor and Dream than a frontcourt of Eddie Griffin, Chris Webber and Kelvin Cato... you're selling yourself short. ------------------ calling powdered toast man girl you looks good won't you mock that draft up?!
Trade Walt and/or Cato for Brad Miller! That's all we need to do now. I really like the sound of that.
