Actually that smart bankers are just bankers from small banks Although I showed my long year good credit history in Europe and Canada, I could only get approval from smaller banks when I first came. Longer tenure does mean something, because the larger the data pool, the more accurate is the statistic. On top of that, unlike Pop, that D'Antoni guy did have some bad credit before. So, it's even more difficult to give that guy a platinum cash back visa
And that doesn't mean large banks have better screening device simply based on credit history. It's just they are large enough to not care about your business. Yes, I know all that. So, where do you define "much"? 5% confidence level? Larger data poll gives you more accurate stats as far as you have the correct model. It doesn't rule out the spurious correlation. It doesn't have more predictive power when the environment is dynamic: the game changes, the players are different, the rules change, and subjects can actually quit - like JVG did. So, can you take a series A (JVG) and series B (D'antoni), and tell me with confidence (at a reasonable level) that JVG is a good coach "much more" than D'antoni? I bet you not with your annual data. You are too academic, or dare I say..dorkish? I bet you are in academics, in a discipline not too involved with math (but some).
If you mean I can't judge JVG based on past record, then nobody should even judge Pj based on that. Nobody can claim that MJ is the greatest, since he isn't even playing right now. Like I said, in my opinion, greatness is built on long term success, not two seasons good result. PJ's 9 rings speak for itself; JVG's longer winning season speaks for his quality; so does D'Antoni's ONLY two seasons. That's all. If PJ's rings have only a slight predictive power for his future success, why can't JVG's past record give you a hint of his coaching ability? Or, in your opinion, only this season counts? If so, then Mike Brown must be better than PJ, and Larry Brown must be one of the worst. I am NOT in academics, NOR am I good in math. However, I am a simple man believing in simple logic.
No, what I am saying is, you can't have harsh standard on some casual usage of "great" coaches by some fans on internet, and then turn around and claim JVG is "much more" of a good coach at the same time. In fact, there is no evidence that D'A is a worse coach than JVG. In fact, there's plenty of people who don't think PJ is a great coach, or MJ is the greatest.
I am not using any harsh standard. Different people have different standards and objectives. I was replying to the post claimed that PJ, Pop, D'Antoni, and Saunders are at the same level, JVG doesn't belong to the level of D'Antoni. I was refuting that notion, simply because a common standard (no matter whose) should be applied to different coaches in the SAME argument. If two good season result can make one coach great, why can't 8 good and better seasons make another coach at the same level? If past result of 10 final trips makes one coach greater than another coach's one trip, why can't that coach's one trip to final make him better than others' 0 trip? It's not rocket science, nor complicated math, just common sense. And you have been switching topics back and forth. Just to set the record straight, I don't consider JVG a great coach, nor is D'Antoni. I don't think "great" should be a cheap word, and I normally dismiss those resumes claiming themselves great in this and that. Except for this season's record, there is no way you can show me why JVG is not at the same level as D'Antoni's. One season of good result doesn't make one a great coach. By the same token, one bad season doesn't make any coach a bad coach, that same standard applies for PJ, LB, D'Antoni, and EVEN JVG. Just my opinion.
Look, I don't find "great coach" in the post you quoted? What I find is "top coaches"? You do however claim "much more". Waging a war about nothing? Read back if you don't believe me. It's your opinion D'antoni doesn't deserve the word "top", it's his opinion JVG isn't the "top". That's common sense.
Man, I am so SORRY that I mixed the word of "great" and "top". My question is based on what? Based on past records, I showed you why it's absurd. Based on this season ONLY, PJ isn't top, Larry Brown is one of the worst. Is that common sense?
no, I don't consider it "absurd". Just like I don't consider the bank (who might as well rejected credit to persons with longer credit history based on other factors) that gave you credit "absurd". D'Antoni has a system that utilize the strength of his players, and he's been successful even if you use your univariate model (team-record). If someone wants to call him one of the top coaches, I don't have much problem. This someone may have other considerations why JVG isn't a top coach on his list(a multi-variate model). I may not agree, but I don't consider it "absurd" either. except no one is saying that.
It isn't my thinking, it is the players' thinking. I am just relaying that to you. My thinking is that a bunch of NBA players that have played for different coaches might have more insight into who is a good coach than me, or even most of the posters on this BBS.
Why don't you start a poll to that effect. The results would be interesting. I'd do it, but the fans of Mr. Van Gundy would call the results "tainted" strictly because I started the thread...
Top or great, I only asked to use the same standard. I was asking what standard was used to put D'Antoni and PJ together as "top coaches", and while the same standard would put JVG "nowhere near that level". If we are talking about past records, PJ's is longer than JVG's, but JVG's is longer than D'Antoni's. If we are talking about rings. JVG has zero, D'Antoni has zero, but PJ has 9. If we are talking about trips to the finals. PJ has 10, JVG has 1, D'Antoni has 0. If we are talking about appearance in playoffs vs. non-playoff seasons, JVG was 8-1, D'Antoni was 2-2. I guess we must be using this season's result as a standard. THEN, PJ's result doesn't qualify him as a top coach, LB's makes him one of the worst. Nobody is saying that, because that's how "absurd" that logic is. I am wondering what exact same standard can be used to put D'Antoni and PJ together as top coaches, but JVG is no where near that level, if it's not result related. Unless, different standard is applied, then we shouldn't be having this conversation. It's just waste of time.
(1) D'Antoni won in the Italian League. Not the NBA, but it *is* a collegiate or professional championship. That is more than Mr. Van Gundy has. (2) Other factors being equal, I will always prefer a professional player as head coach over someone whose biggest playing accomplishment was at Division III Nazareth College.
So, in essense, you are furious because someone rated D'Antoni ahead of JVG, while JVG has a longer tenure in the NBA? Personally, I don't think there's enough evidence to claim one is better than another just yet. But I don't see why someone would get furious if someone has a higher opinion of D'Antoni than JVG either. And I don't subscribed to the notion longer tenure with moderate success should automated put some coach ahead of another either. Given the respective success after JVG got players he wanted, and D'antoni the same, I won't call someone who rates D'Antoni ahead of JVG "absurd". Just as I won't call the Rockets new-hire GM who doesn't have any previous GM experience or much basketball experience "absurd". Past tenure, sometimes, is just...past tenure. People were predicting Lebron to be a great NBA player before he even played a NBA game. You can call people who rated LJ ahead of some moderately successful NBA players "absurd" all you want, but it doesn't make your tenure-based theory more true. Although as I said, I'm not the one to compare the two. People may see different things in JVG's coaching to rate him behind D'Antoni. Maybe it's that JVG's team is always lackluster offensively (the best is last year's Rockets, which is 15th out of 30 among all teams). Maybe it's his seemingly slow in-game adjustemnt. I don't know. I'm just freelancing here. But I won't dismiss the notion someone is a better coach than JVG just based on his tenure in NY. Oh, BTW "top coaches" right now, and "great coaches" do make a difference.
I said I am sorry I mixed "top" with "great". What else do you want? I am not furious about anything. I was just asking a simple question, what standard is used to put PJ and D'Antoni as TOP COACHES, and JVG is nowhere near that level. Last time I checked, this is still a free country, and this is a free forum, I am still allowed to ask questions. If the poster doesn't want to tell me what standard is used, that's fine. If you can't or don't want to reveal that secret, that's fine too. No need to jump out to argue about god knows what, twisting my words, spinning the whole discussion, and swtiching topics back and forth. What's your point, if you had one? I was asking a question about the STANDARD applied for both statements. If you want to tell me on behalf of the poster I asked, great. If not, just ignore my question, no need to question my motive or right to ask that simple question.
Wow, wow, wow...Ok, you are not furious. You were just asking some rhetoric questions at the qoint I replied. Where should I send the "I'm sorry" card? I want nothing from you....... other than good old fun of free posting.
