Pffft... I've been around longer than Dunkinlos... I won't be upset if Van Gundy stays or goes. I sincerely believe that others could have done a better job with working through the injuries, only because I don't think VG has the ability to adjust his game plan well enough when encountered with adversity. However, he seems to work well with talent, and I wouldn't mind seeing him give it a go with a healthy Rockets crew. To be sure though, I won't give him the time of day if this team is still all fouled up at the end of December.
Okay, Okay. I haven't been around longer than Dunkinlos... But I didn't even register for almost 2 years.
Are you kidding me? The Pacers last year were playing for about a month with an 8 man rotation! Get your facts straight. They did lose their starting point guard, and both their all-star forwards. You can rationalize it any which way to help you sleep better at night. But saying JVG did a subpar job w/ the Rockets this season is a tremendous understatement.
Their 8 man rotation had more talent than the roster we have at the moment. C'mon...Bogans, Head, Frahm, Brunson all getting significant PT.
You're trying to tell me that the Pacers had players like Lonny Baxter and Old Man Deke (all due respect to the big guy) starting for them, with a bench consisting of 10-day contracts off the NBDL? Heck...that 8 man rotation probably had at least comparable depth to what we have *right now*! Don't even try to underestimate what we've gone through. For at least a month or more, we were without BOTH of our point guards - starter and bench, our all star forward in T-Mac, our all star center in Yao (don't even try to compare o'neal/artest to that couple. please.), and two of our perimeter threats in Barry and Anderson. We even lost our backup center Deke during that period for several games. We had David Wesley running PG duties, and Lonny freaking Baxter and Chuck Hayes in the front court. JLIII was our backup PG off the bench, and everybody thought he was going to be our savior. Just thought I'd refresh your memory a little bit, since you seem to think the Pacers went through the same thing that we did. Never mind that they're merely 3 games ahead of us in the win column, despite all that.
They also lost their starting SG.... lets be real here Rick Carlisle has shown he is much greater in handling adversity than JVG, and he did it without blasting his players to kingdom come in the media
I'm sure you understood my post better than that. since you didnt argue my point, i assume you agree with me there. i agree with you to some degree on this point. it was indeed a mistake to give him an extension after making the playoffs twice. the fact is that we should be in the playoffs with this team. that alone is not an achievement. also had this extension never happened JVG's place here would be in question. however, take a look around, who else is available?
(a) I dislike the use of "we" or "us" when referring to a sports franchise. The fans may play some role, but they are NOT part of the organization. (b) I would disagree. With this exact same roster, and these exact same injuries, I think other coaches could make adjustments, and win more than Mr. Van Gundy has.
(A)That is a widely accepted concept and frame of reference. To associate things that we shared commonality with as "we." Just saying or using said reference does not mean it's to be taken literally as it is just a way to reference something. To argue with others who use We or Us in regards to their fav. sports franchise or city etc is silly. You are simply argueing semantics at that point and thats simply a waste of time... Especially on a MESSAGE board! (B) Not that I think JVG did a great job this year, but who do you think would have won more in the exact same circumstances? And how much more? Why?
Dude, all he said was that he doesn't like using "we" or "us". I think he pretty clearly stated that it was his opinion. Can we stick to arguing about something that really matters? My personal opinion is that nobody could have done anything with this team this year, with all of these injuries. There is a bright side, in the emergence of Yao. But overall, this season sucked. I don't think VG should be blamed for the team's inability to make open shots. That should fall on the players, in my opinion. And as for the quality of the pieces we have, I think the organization has done about the best they could with what they had to offer since JVG has been here. When you have pieces like Mo Money Taylor to offer, it's no surprise that you can't get anything good in exchange.
Dude, First of all that is not all he said, try reading page one before you make some uninform comment about what I'm replying to. Second since you been around for awhile you should know this is not the first time he's taken exception with someone who used the word "we" in refernce to the Rockets... in fact just off what i can recall in the past 3 years, this is atleast the 3rd time! Oh and if you note the second part of my post I was attempting to discuss "something that really matters."
Why could this not be posted in the Morey thread? Imho, this is a waste of space - lets make good use of threads already open wisely. ahhhhhh!
(a) The point is that the organization doesn't belong to the city, doesn't belong to the fans, and you are on the outside with your nose pressed up against the glass that you paid for. Just because you use "we" in conversation doesn't make you one of the cool kids. If Le$ listened to the fans, Mr. Van Gundy would be right there on the street next to you. (b) To name four off the top of my head: Rudy Tomjanovich, Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, and Mike D'Antoni. They might not have been able to garner a playoff spot, but any one of them would've had this team around the .500 mark and in contention. Why? Adjustments, better substitution patterns (going with the hot hand) and better coaching on the offensive end of the court.
as stated many times. Rick Carlisle. He did much more with even less. He adjusts his gameplan thats why.
JVG has to take some (or a lot of) blame for the season. But the thing is the system with or without Tmac and Yao, especially Tmac, would be quite different. Tmac kept coming in and out of the lineup this season, each time he came back it looked like he would be fine for the rest of the season. So I can understand JVG would want to keep the same system so the players can adjust quickly to Tmac or Yao's comeback. Plus our starting PG, who doesn't have much history of injury, was also injured for a lot of games. I agree with what Rafer said: the ever changing lineup make it very difficult to get used to the teammates on court and therefore affecting the ball distribution and play making.
Hmm I guess I'll tackle the more absurd part first. Now I just have to decide which one that is. A. the point is its a message board and people who use the word "we" in reference to the Rockets while discussing them on the board are referencing the commonality of their mutual interests in the team. We realize we are not part of the organization and in what warp world does using the word "we" become an attempt to become "cool kids." Heck most of the ppl in this forums arent kids and I doubt they are saying "we" in refernce to the Rockets so to be viewed as "cool." Your dislike of someone saying we or us is fine, but it doesnt make it wrong to do so. B. LOL you think Larry Brown would have coached this team to a better record? Are you blind or do you not see how miserably hes failed this year with the NY Knicks? I loved how his Adjustments, better substitution patterns have worked out there! I see you also listed Rudy and while I love Rudy, what makes you think he could have even endured the rigors of coaching this year let alone coaching this team with all its injuries to a 500 record. Rudy couldnt face the stress of coaching last year and with his health problems isnt even considering coaching anytime soon, yet you think he's a lock to coach this injury ridden team to .500 record. All your ever popular Phil Jackson...Considering that phil Jackson coached a team w/lamar Odom and Kobe Bryant for the enitre year to practically a .500 record I dont see how it becomes evident to anyone how he would've managed to "coached" the Rockets w/Yao & Mcgrady missing a combine 40+ games not to mention all the other injuries to a .500 record. Please explain that one to me. Does his magical substitution patterns and "adjusting" get that much better when hes coaching the injury ridden Rockets than it is now with the Lakers? Then you have Rick Carlise, who by your logic of coaches being not good until they've won a championship, is just plain adequate. Lets see... his team is 2 games under 500 despite playing in the Leastern Conference, so how does that show in any convincing way that he would have done better in the West w/an injurry ridden Rockets team? LOL lastly you have Dantoni, are you just pulling these out of your you know what? You do realize that Dantoni has only 4 years in the league and his other two season were, 14-36 (denver) and 21-40 (suns). Heck I'll give him a pass for Denver but the 03-04 Suns? Didnt they have Amare for 55 games that year w/ avgs of 20/9? Didnt they have Marion for 79 games 19/9? How bout Joe Johnson for 82 games at 17/4/4 ? How bout Marbury for the first 34 games at 20/8? How did that team win only 21 games? Sure Amare missed 25 games but 21 games?? Was his ability to adjust, coach offense, sub pattern borken then? Hmm maybe he fixed it before Nash arrived in pheonix and doubly fixed it again this year when Amare went down!
Your nickname seems appropriate. Using "us" or "we" insinuates a relationship to the organization that does not exist. Being a fan is one thing, but saying that "our injury to Tracy McGrady really hurt us" is as nonsensical as being a U2 fan and saying "our strained vocal chords to Bono really hurt our performance tonight." Other NBA coaches have proven they are better by accomplishing more in less time. This season, Mike D'Antoni managed to coach a team missing one of its superstars to a (49, soon to be) 50-win season. Phil Jackson managed to coach a team generally not expected to make the playoffs to a solid seventh seed. Mr. Van Gundy couldn't get an Rockets team some thought would be competing for a championship to overcome injuries enough to play 0.500 basketball.
LOL. What're the odds of edc not calling JVG "Mister Van Gunday" and Texas Stoke not throwing out "YOF" label when he replies to a Yao-related topic? My guess is they are next to nil.
