1. There are churches that want members to provide copies of pay-stubs so that they'll know you're paying 10%. 2. My own church, which is rather affluent, is more focused on moving people up from 10%. There's some pressure to not be dogmatic about 10% and give more, though not much from the pulpit. There's probably one sermon a year on the subject and a budget meeting (Prebyterians are very open and democratic about their governance), but they walk on eggshells trying to not offend people who do not give much or anything (like me). The average is probably still well below 10% (as it is across America), but we have some big tithers too. 3. It's a delicate subject because it is money, and most churches don't want to seem money-grubbing. At the same time, it's an important subject in people's lives and addressed in the Bible, and probably should be addressed from the pulpit. Likewise, especially for small, unaffiliated churches, people's reluctance to tithe can bankrupt the church, which is something I assume congregants don't want. 4. It is a bit offensive to see pastors living in fancy houses and driving around in expensive cars. However, there is also something not right about an affluent church with a poor pastor. We have a population of refugees as part of our congregation and our pastors enjoy much higher standards of living than them. But, we also have folks living in River Oaks mansions that make the pastor's house look paltry.
Jesus "upped" everything...because he caused people to look beyond formalistic religion and look to their hearts. Adultery became more than actually sleeping with someone who was married...he said if you're thinking about it, you're committing adultery. Murder became more than actually killing someone...he said if you're harboring hatred in your heart, you've become a murderer. With him it was always a matter of where your heart was...because where your heart is, is where your worship is. So the early church, according to the second chapter of Acts, included the selling of assets to make sure that none were in need. I'd argue the early church would have seen 10% as a bit of a joke in light of what they believed. I don't think we should hold too tightly to formulas to make God happy. That sounds a lot like religion to me. And I don't think that's what Jesus was really about. I realize we all assign very different meanings to words in these threads, and that often leads to tons of confusion. I hope I didn't do that with this post, but I think it's likely.
Our Church only gives hassle to the families with children in the school. If you don't "donate" so much per week to the church it raises your tuition for the difference. They say this is so they can keep track of parishioners and non parishioners so that people don't just sign up to be a member of the Church to get the parishioner rate in the school then never attend mass. Plus every week our bulletin has a total collection amount so that everyone knows exactly how much money is collected. Then once a year they show where all the money has gone and the budget for the next year. But only a couple times a year do they do the "beg for money" sermons. Normally its the "Annual Appeal" or the "Priest/Nun Retirement Fund" stuff like that.
Tithing is an important part of the church. That being said, I was always taught that each should give according to their own heart. Churches need money to run their ministries, operate their building, lights, water, air conditioning and it isnt cheap. The Pastor reminding his congregation about tithing several times a month is what sounds a bit strange to me.
It is far more common than it should be I have watch the church kind of descend into this place and it bothers me. Some Churches have ATMs in the lobby. I've heard of some Churches requiring W2 I've been in Churches were the dim the like and show promotionals [commercials] for the church .. . DURING CHURCH!!! These things bother the ***** out of me [Esp the W2 . . . the church doesn't trust me that i'm giving 10%????? what kind of bull***** untrusting penny pinching church is that??? Well . .I now don't trust them to do what they say they will do .. . <RANT OVER>] The False Prophets and the Money Grubbing Charlatons have corrupted the Church While some will come and say .. well . .that is all of religion The reality is more members are Devout. . however alot of the Clergy make me wonder To many seem to have 'The Calling' .. . which seems to me maybe the sounds of folding dollars So Pun . .. do *not* confuse this with REAL CHURCH This seems to denegrate into a 2 hour infomercial quickly Rocket River . . . yea. .this is the point where Jesus would walk through kicking over the offering buckets and wrecking the place IMO
ONE MORE THING As someone pointed out . .it is not so much generousity that is preached but Obligation/Guilt and of course INVESTMENT After that have beat you over the head with Obligation and Guilt they come back and remind you . . .YOU WILL GET IT BACK 10 FOLD!!!!! Like giving should be predicated on some future reward [OK alot of religion is like that . . ie Heaven] Don't confuse CHURCH with Religion with Christian thought/Ideals Rocket River Be good for Goodness Sake Give to Give. . not to Receive - Christian Thought and Ideals IMO
THIS IS A HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE PROBLEM. And a complete corruption of the Gospel, to me. You've already been blessed. And I find very little to suggest that when you're blessed financially, it's so that you can hold on to it for your own security!!!! Remember that the man whom Jesus called the greatest man to walk the planet was John the Baptist...his reward for that?? He had his head cut off! Jesus' "reward" was crucifixion and a beating. He told his followers to pick up their cross and follow him....that following him meant being willing to give everything you have away...no matter how little or much that was. I struggle with what all of that means for me....I always will, I think....but I know it doesn't mean that I should expect some blessing in return for giving back to God what was God's to begin with.
No question about it. Generosity isn't about God...it's about us. God isn't asking people to be generous because he wants some cash. He's asking it of us because he knows it transforms us.
10% is actually not that bad. Being the Almighty Creator, everything is His. Our bodies are not our own, its His. The land is not our own, its His. The clothes we wear to work, the car that we drive to work, the freeway that leads us to work, the food that we eat that gives us energy, the house that we live in for refuge, the bed that we sleep in to re-energize us the following day, even the ability and know-how -- All are God's. We only supply industry. From a business standpoint, God should get 90% and us 10% But because God is more than merciful, he reversed the deal and have us kept the 90 while he gets the remaining 10. Id take that deal Its an issue of our gratitude and faithfulness to His love for us regardless of where the money may be going . Right, God doesnt need a hand-out. He doesnt need money, He has plenty of it Its our demonstration of our faithfulness that will please Him most, especially in our finance.
I have attended many Catholic churches in my lifetime. Never has the homily included finances. There may be an announcement at some point about a special project the church is raising funds for, but it more of a give if you can kinda thing. This has been my experience as well. Crap...I must be in BIG trouble then.
From an outside perspective, aren't most of these donations being used to finance the building construction and maintenance? I imagine some of the more grandiose churches like the ones off 360 in Austin must have cost millions to build. Do donations represent their only operating income?
In the book of Judas he was asked by Jesus to betray him to the Romans, a totally different account than the one published in the Bible. DD
It varies from church community to church community. My church tries to minimize overhead so that the vast majority of the money that is given/tithed/donated isn't spent on us (building, staff salaries, etc), but instead other places such as areas of need in Austin (e.g. the east side) or churches around the world who barely have the funds to help the people around them, let alone a huge cathedral-like structure in a culture that isn't very friendly towards followers of Christ.
I could be completely wrong, but aren't there a few problems with the book of Judas that make its legitimacy really sketchy?
I went to a Southern Baptist church for probably 6 to 9 months during HS when I dated a girl that was big into church. Other than that brief period, I have rarely attended church services. I remember two things regarding finances: 1.) There was one sermon on tithing. I remember the preacher specifically stating that he used to feel uncomfortable preaching a sermon about tithing, but started to do it once per year because it was a part of the bible. He felt that he wasn't doing his job if he specifically left something out of his sermons just because it made him uncomfortable preaching about money. IIRC, he tried to preach about how God would reward those who tithed, etc. 2.) At one point, prior to my arrival at the church, they started construction on a big basketball gym and new classrooms, but could not afford to finish them. A lot of people didn't want to build the new facilities, so they left the church, leaving them with an unfinished building and a lot of debt. In order to have a fund to pay off the debt, they created this giant dry-erase board with squares and a number in every square. I don't remember if it was $100 or $50 in each square, but every sunday, there would be a part of the service where they asked for donations and would announce how much they'd paid off during the week. After this announcement, they would erase X amount of squares based upon how much they paid down their debt. It was almost like when they update the running total of donations on a charity telethon. I thought it was pretty funny/tacky.
Interesting. It's good to hear that some churches are concerned with saving money and giving to the needy.
