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Is this recession different from the previous ones?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by brantonli24, Sep 7, 2012.

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Is this recession the same or different?

  1. The same

    4 vote(s)
    13.8%
  2. Different

    22 vote(s)
    75.9%
  3. Doesn't matter, recessions always have 4 year time limits, so Obama has to go

    3 vote(s)
    10.3%
  1. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    Interesting

    In the meetings and conferences I attend we tend to discuss business not whine about the president. We get things done and move forward. Maybe it's a TX thing? You sit around and whine about the president? Doesn't sound like a very productive use of your time.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    Too many to list. For starters:

    Obamacare: The small businesses that I work with are afraid to hire people because they are unsure of the regulations, costs and taxes associated with the thousands of pages of this law. PriceWaterhouseCoopers gave us a review of the law -- the REVIEW was 50 pages. Scary.

    EPA: All out assault on the entire energy industry, with specific focus on the power industry, oil & gas industry, and mining industry. Power plants have been closed, offshore drilling in the Gulf ended literally for a year and REALLY SLOW in coming back due to the red tape, and mines closed everywhere. Literally the list of targeted assaults on the energy industry by Lisa Jackson and the EPA is too long to list. Thank goodness Cap and Trade was rejected (despite Dems controlling House and Senate when it was proposed). The EPA masks their assault on the energy business by claiming they are fighting pollution, but that's just a fake cover story -- their goal is to get rid of fossil fuels, which is just insane given that wind/solar/biodiesel and other alternatives are just not economic without huge government subsidies. Obama tries to block projects all the time, the Keystone XL pipeline gets all the attention, but there are countless other energy projects that he's killed or killed by delaying.

    Dodd Frank: Financial service firms again are afraid to take action on big projects and hire people because of this behemoth of a bill that no one understands.

    Stimulus / Deficit Spending: Businesses are afraid to take on big projects because they look at the absolute disaster that our economy is in and look at Europe and see us heading into a recession soon. No one wants to invest in big projects ahead of a recession, and Obama's policies make many people think that's where we are headed (if we're not already there).

    Higher Taxes / Fiscal Cliff: Again, businesses are afraid to invest if the economy is going to collapse in the near term because of the damage that raising taxes will do to the country.


    This is just off the top of my head -- with time, I could list many many more. Obama is a disaster for business. With all of the Fed stimulus that we've seen over the last four years -- Historically low interest rates, and now three rounds of quantitative easing, it is unfathomable how the economy is not growing rapidly. That tells you all you need to know about how pernicious Obama's anti-business policies actually are.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. brantonli24

    brantonli24 Member

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    TJ, one some parts this is just not true. I follow the natural gas industry and the EPA actually allowed fracking with minimal government interference (I think a 2 year phase in to make sure that no gas is leaked into the atmosphere, but thats it), so quite frankly some of your businesses partners need to start looking at nat gas.

    and on Dodd-frank, the whole thing is not going to get through legislation, it's going to be quite piecemeal. so that behemoth you are talking about will definitely be reduced over the next year. And seriously, you and your business partners feel that USA is heading Euro's way? Wow really? US debt is certainly really high, but unless your partners have forgotten that US can still print its own money, and has ridiculously low yields, it's not going to go the way of Europe any time soon. But you are absolutely right about the fiscal cliff, that bit of idiocy from Congress is going to put a hold on quite a few business investment decisions.

    And why don't you try having a look at the link that Mr Invisible kindly provided (the one linking to Richard Koo's theory on the current recession), should be of interesting read to you and your business partners.
     
  4. plcmts17

    plcmts17 Member

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    :rolleyes:
    Link please! Support you claims with facts or go back to your maquiladora.
     
  5. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    heh.

    Hilarious.

    This is kinda a good thing, actually, if it were true.

    "big projects" like interest rate manipulation, laundering money to drug cartels and terrorists, whale trades and energy market manipulations?

    Something tells me you're not in finance, economics, or management consulting Jorge, people there tend to understand these things and why further changes like swapping out issuer pays, expanding the primary dealer system, and fixing the repo market (especially dealer default and over-reliance on certain clearing banks) might be good things.
     
    #25 Northside Storm, Sep 8, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  6. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    My gas exploration company (.05%!) is only suffering because there is way too much gas on the open market, the EPA hasn't slowed anything.
     
  7. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    You are clueless and uninformed about the natural gas industry if you think that what you wrote is true. Natural gas gets less of an assault by Lisa Jackson and the EPA than other areas of energy, but do not think for one moment that this Administration supports drilling for gas. There is a full out attack on fracking that is set to go into place after the election.

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...-proposes-new-shale-fracking-rules.htm?p=full

    On top of that, permitting is very difficult and time consuming, and Obama is restricting access to many potential drilling areas. And remember, this is the area of fossil fuel energy that gets the MOST 'support' from these clowns in Washington. When it comes to energy policy, this Administration is just flat out dangerous. They WANT energy costs to go up to help out their alternative energy fantasies. Screw the consumer.
     
  8. brantonli24

    brantonli24 Member

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    TJ can I just point out that you and I are arguing very different aspects of the regulation of nat gas? The article you posted was entirely about regulation in fracking and possible groundwater contamination (of which there very little anyway) but the actual guidelines that came out were dealing with escaping methane gas that may leak into the atmosphere when fracking.

    Plus if you really were concerned about natural gas, you should be complaining about the decision on whether to export natural gas or not:

    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE8760YJ20120807?irpc=932

    EPA reports said exports would drive up prices, Brookings said it wouldn't.
     
  9. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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  10. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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  11. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    I love the term "lost decade".

    I do not know much about the Nikkei 225 but it looks like more than a decade has been "lost":

    [​IMG]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikkei_225

    Meanwhile, to raise revenues, the Japanese parliament is enacting higher consumption taxes:

    I think the US has a higher degree of income and wealth inequality which it can exploit before having to increase government revenues with a flat/consumption tax raise.
     
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Oil companies have plenty of fields they can tap today in the gulf to make loads of money at the current price for oil - but they don't because they want federal lands so they get even more profits.

    Obama hasn't placed immense amounts of red-tape on any industry but finance which clearly could not police it's own. I think saying Obama is anti-business and anti-growth is ludicrous.
     
  13. brantonli24

    brantonli24 Member

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    Since that is a very good hypothetical starting point, can we also ask where could the Economy be without some of Obama's knee jerk, senseless decisions like the bailouts and QE?
     
  14. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    could have been a dead sea covered with a black sheen if you just want to throw hypotheticals out there

    If Deepwater Horizon isn't a good enough reason for cautious prudence for you then you you don't need to be in charge of anything. There's not any shortage of oil in the US on the near term.
     
    #34 Dubious, Sep 10, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  15. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Not only that but there are plenty of permits not being used. Bigtexxx is once again just making a knee-jerk attack for the sake of attacking.
     
  16. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    The lost decade is also called the "lost decades"
     
  17. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]

    Are you the little girl on the left, or the little girl on the right?
     

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