I think there are more conservative people here, however, I think the liberals are more outspoken. I also think there are a lot of people her who claim to be conservative, but really couldn't hang with living those beliefs if they tried. And here I speak mainly of the p*rn mongers and such.
A) Good points, but i was working within the accepted confines which are used to ( ad nauseum) label one or the other in here... B) Thanks. Yeah, I was going through a rough patch...not all the way back, but getting there, back at work, etc.
See, I'm not sure if I am all that left. If you had to pick a side, I guess I fall 'left' on more issues than 'right', but it would be really close, and on man a skew far right ( abortion for example...)... I have honestly never found a political designation which applies to me with any consistent accuracy...
I don't think that you can say well "so-and-so is a conservative because they fit in this little box, etc." Most people are not going to be totally conservative or liberal, but if a much greater of your opinions fall on one side or the other, you must be considered of that ideology. Take this little test and find out where you stand: World's Smallest Political Quiz
I did send in money...quite a while back...but through a friend in Texas...and, frankly, like the YOF, newbie, etc. stuff, I shy away from the tiering of this place...I prefer to think of this as a community without established sperating classifications. Also, I don't own a single credit card, so repeating my contribution so I can edit would not only be antithetical, but just too much damned work...
I think there's a pretty good representation of all viewpoints here. We ALL like to think of ourselves as underdogs, so we notice "opposing" viewpoints more often than our own. It also depends on what thread you're reading -- if it's a "Bush sucks" thread, liberals pile on. If it's a "liberals suck" thread, conservatives pile on. We all like to say "I told you so," so we always jump on so-called weaknesses in the other side. Overall, though, I think there's a pretty good representation of ideas here.
No joke...I am writing a book right now, and as part of it involves p*rn, I have been doing a lot of...'research'...( not a weak rationalization, as I feel most p*rn use is pretty healthy and not in need of defense) ...and aside from an amazing amount of annoying popups which I am too inexpert to rid my computer of, the greatest residue of my research is the fact that most p*rn mongers are first and foremost extreme capitalists, which isn;t usually mutually exclusive with conservative. Add to that the fact that classic conservatism has as it's chore the right to self-detrmination unless infringing upon others, and 'real' conservatives would be among voluntary p*rnography's greatest defenders.
Not to mention that there are all sorts of conservatives. It isn't a monolithic group with one shared opinion. There are plenty of conservatives who are simply more liberal on many social-type issues. For that matter, there are quite a few liberals who are stridently anti-p*rn (especially in some corners of the Women's movement).
MacBeth I expected a little bit more insightful analysis from you. Of course we have to make the distinction between fiscally conservative (or what you would call a capitalist?) and the socially conservative. I also think the distinction must be made within the fiscally conservative as well between the hard working good morals middle class guy and the guy who wipes his sweat with Ben Franklin portrait. To quote a smart guy- THE EXPENSE of spirit in a waste of shame Is lust in action; and till action, lust Is perjur’d, murderous, bloody, full of blame, Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust; Enjoy’d no sooner but despised straight; 5 Past reason hunted; and no sooner had, Past reason hated, as a swallow’d bait, On purpose laid to make the taker mad: Mad in pursuit, and in possession so; Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme; 10 A bliss in proof,—and prov’d, a very woe; Before, a joy propos’d; behind, a dream. All this the world well knows; yet none knows well To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.
I think the country is fundamentally liberal. On all the major domestic issues, the public sides with the liberal position. The administration knows this, hence their reliance on liberal language at the head of policies which are anything but... On the environment, you have Clear Skies and Healthy Forests, even though these would not be the results of the acts. They have to pretend they care about the environment to the same degree the American public does to get their anti-environmental legislation passed. Conservatives cannot pass legislation that is true to their hearts without pretending the opposite. On entitlements, their had to be an "expansion" of Medicare. for Social Security, there is a "strengthening." The Right hates these programs and wants to do away with them, but cannot do it honestly. On education, need I say more than "No Child Left Behind," which will make our schools better and more accountable, but it won't promote vouchers and private schools or shaft minority-majority school districts right? Very few Conservative Republicans could get elected by stating their real viewpoints on the environment and education. Homeland Security? A Dem idea that Bush was forced to swallow. Iraq? If you believe some of what they say, it was to give us a base in the ME and instill a friendly govt., but now they have to say it was for humanitarian reasons, which is typically a liberal position. They want to give corporations relief, but they have to hide behind the wording of "frivolous lawsuits." They want to do away with overtime, but talk about how their rules will make more people eligible and only affect a "small" number. Liberals are much closer to the mainstream of America than conservatives and conservatives know it and act on it. The question is, how long can they hide behind the facade of liberal ideas? Sooner or later, they're going to get so far out there, they'll have to nakedly state their positions.
Where did I fall short? In terms of the distinction re: conservative, I wasn't making one for the simple reason that, within the confines of this discussion...ie this board...there isn;t one usually made regarding labels. Of course in a borader discussion it would have come up... If the shortfall was re: p*rn, I have a lot more to say, but didn;t want to derail the thread. In terms of WS, while I am not actually THAT much of a fan of the sonnets, 129 is among my favorites.
Great post, but a few questions... Is it possible that those in power tend to couch their actions, which they know will meet with approval of their base of support in action, in terms which will possibly met with more apporval from the opposition's base and the neutral ground...in other words, give the meat eaters meat, and they'll like it because it's meat, but call it a veggie burger to try and fool enough vegitarians to keep the power? It would be interesting to see if more liberal President's used more conservative sounding terminology to charecterize their actions.
I think there is a distinction... take for instance TJ and I. That guy loves to talk about p*rn. Growing up in my house, if you mentioned the word, you'd get a two hour lecture on how fake lust can sometimes be misinterpreted for love, as well as a chide rebuking for bringing it up in the first place. I think its safe to say that we'll both be voting for Bush this next election. Also, look at the threads we take part in. Economic issues bore me to death while TJ could probably care less about getting in to an abortion discussion.
No, you are right. Remember the days of the Backslapping Cadre of Lliberals? The Special Prosecutor and the impeachment proceedings were lightning rods of political name-calling.
If you looked at Clinton, that might be true to some extent on particular subjects, primarily, I would argue, to get it passed by a Congress of the other party. Republicans have control of both houses, the Supreme Court, and the White House. During the last two years they have had all this and a President with approval ratings in the 80s. Yet they still could not pass one single, solitary piece of conservative/far right legislation honestly or be open about their agenda. Liberals advocate what they believe, Republicans present Trojan Horses.
