Is there such a thing as the separation of church and state?

"Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible."

George Washington

 

You are clearly misinformed about the Bible, and the context in which Jesus is speaking.

This is Jesus giving a sermon on not making a spectacle of yourself over the matters of prayer, charity and fasting

You'd do well not to guess. Daniel is part of the Old Testament and is just as much a part of the Bible as the New Testament. The God of the Hebrews is the same as the God of the Christians, who find salvation through his son Jesus Christ.

and I'm sure you know the rest from there.

that is your opinion, and I disagree strongly, but I will not debate that since you do not elaborate.

 

I strongly disagree with you, the US Senate opened with prayer since it's inception, many city council meetings are opened with prayers, there are many public officials who have festivals, city sponsored events and public building dedications opened with prayers, I know this for a fact because I am often times asked to do it.

The public expression of religion is constitutionally protected in the bill of rights,

I do understand that society is changing and there does need to be more sensitivity on the issue.

Not trying to force prayer. Just temper the reaction.

You may hate it, but I don't like billboards will half naked girls promoting Bud Lite on the road I drive my children on twice a week, just a matter of freedom of speech, religion, expression etc.

The line can be often crossed, and the line might be blurred; but I think you are over reacting to public prayer.

That is my opinion.

 

Religion generally make better people, I think you'll find people who are religious are more likely to help others and donate to charity.

But then there are the radical groups, Christian evangelicals, Muslim extremists, etc. Who goes too far and starts to impose their religion on others and science.

There is no such thing as complete separation of church and state, but you better make sure people don't rely on one to make decisions for the other.

 

This is true, there may be a time soon when most people are offended at public prayer and it becomes an issue of courteousy and humility just to back off.

I sure wouldn't pray somewhere unwelcome. That is not why you pray.

 

no, he was a deist.

 

But my understanding is that the intent our our Declaration of Independence was, as you said, to prevent the formulation of a state religion which citizens would be compelled to support financially and otherwise.

I would imagine that at that time, the kind of Christian spirituality that became part of our governance was viewed by no one at that time as offensive or burdensome like they are today.

It's just an expression not a definition or any kind of restriction.

 

Uh... then why has it for so long been such an integral part of our governing? We still say a prayer at the opening sessions of congress.

The founding fathers didn't want a formal state religion that would be a financial burden to the people like the Anglican and Catholic churches had been in earlier centuries.

 

This is a serious question (not just for you mrpaige but inspired by your comment): what is expected of non-Muslims in a Muslim society when those times come during the day that they turn toward Mecca and pray?

 

Not to be argumentative, but I can see Lscoladominates' point. Certainly, going to great lengths to ascertain the ability to lead non-religious functions with an invocation would qualify as a spectacle, no?

 

There are countries that have Christianity as their official religion, such as Argentina (officially Roman Catholic), Norway (officially Lutheran), etc.

...and America isn't one of them.

I'm Christian, and I believe that all humans should follow the way of Christianity. But I must also accept the fact that I live in a country whose foundations are based on not advocating any specific religion.

So, American government, at all levels, should have NO religious inclusion whatsoever. No prayers of any kind....No "In God We Trust" on our currency... No "under God" in the pledge of allegiance.... No sculptures of the Bible at the courthouse.... NOTHING.

And, as a Christian, if I don't like that, I should move to Norway.

 

I don't know their motives, and I agree that they were out of line... I just disagree that the passage relates directly to the situation. I will agree that Jesus would probably not condone what they did, but I do not think he would all caught up in the politics and individual rights

 

I guess for me the passage relates to humility. And, as madmax eloquently put it, there is a distinct lack of humility being shown by the "christians" in the OP.

I'm not a "christian" anymore, but I still find incredible meaning in jesus' teachings. And I don't think it unreasonable that jesus would find these invocations to be merely tedious displays of pride, not faith.

 

I just thank God that we have separation of Synagogue and State.

Seriously, the constitution has both a free exercise clause and an establishment clause. They are the law. The SoCaS is just a well-used term that somewhat explains the concept. The short answer is that you have a right to worship and express your religion in whatever otherwise legal way you wish, but you don't have a right to not hear about the religious practices of others. If it offends you to see Muslims and their prayer mat or whatever, maybe this whole freedom thing isn't for you.

 

Is your argument that the U.S. should set it's policy for the religion of the majority based on what is done in other nations?

 

Dear Mr. Morey,

If based on your recent player aqcuisition you would consider or feel the need for a team chaplain, I would respectfully like to submit my resume.

Prayer has a calming affect on some people without taking away their aggressive passions.

I am a life long Rocket fan and would be pleased to pray for you or anyone else on the team or in the organization.

Just email me.

Sincerely,
Rhester

 

No. Just wondering.... but now that you ask:

My bet is that many here would tell me to respect their tradition but would have a problem with expecting them to respect ours.

 

We are:

the land of the free, and the home of the brave.

they are:

not

Snidely Whiplash can tie up maidens and leave them for trains to run over. Dudley Do-Right has to risk his life to save them. Nobody tells Dudley that it is OK to let the maiden die, because Snidely wouldn't raise a hand to save them. Dudley doesn't hold himself to a standard based on the actions of the villain. His standards come from looking inside and doing what is right.

We are the good guys. We hold ourselves held to a higher standard. We don't judge our behavior on whether the bad guys think it would be willing to do it. Unless you want to be the bad guys. Then we can compare ourselves to North Korea or Iran, or whoever and it will be a legitimate comparison. You'll have to grow a sinister beard and cackle a lot, though. Maybe get a pair of those 'nerd-psycho chic' Kim Jong-il glasses and a grey leisure suit.