Is there precedent for a truly horrific shooter becoming adequate?

That's not swinging for the fences, that's shooting yourself in the foot.

Drafting an athlete that you hope maybe one day you can teach how to play basketball is not something you should be doing at the top of a draft unless they have something else going for them like Giannis or Wemby like size.

If it was one of the Thompsons trying to shoot themselves in the foot, it would be fine... neither of them can hit anything they shoot at.

For the Rockets, it's a bad strategy

 

I guess you could look at what his teammates did in those games, though I don't actually see any full box scores.


Spinella and Vecenie talk about the Mega game here (and some general stuff about the tour). Of course, I doubt many care what they think since they don't agree with some of the hot takes here (e.g., they say Amen would be a problem for opponents in any non-nba league), but if people want legit evaluations, I think this is really good.

I think there is some truth to what you say, though I think you're also exaggerating some things. Again, can watch the video above for good context.

 

Legit arguments on both sides. Good thread.

 

So I already made this correction in this thread (yeah I know reading is hard), but the twins would be sophomores, not juniors, if they were in college next year. Brandon Miller is a few months older even, though I don't see people making the same claims about him (guess he's kinda boring). I'm also kinda curious if this is as significant as we might think from a development standpoint.

They are old for their class though, and definitely old relative to their opponents in OTE. I'm just quibbling largely, but it is an odd repeated mistake I see.

The substance to those posts otherwise is legit. I will say I'm not exactly sure how long it takes to fix a shot (especially if it needs a major rework). 1 month? 3 months? 6 months? 1 year? 2 year? 3 years?

 

That's fair, the bigger red flag as you point out is that they were what should have been college sophomores playing basketball against 15 and 16 year old children....and still not truly dominating like you'd think a legitimate top NBA draft prospect should.

Tell me a scenario where 2 legitimate top NBA prospects would be in that scenario and not just beclown the competition every game?

Can you imagine watching Cade and Mobley on a team together against children? I guarantee it would look a LOT different than the Thompsons against those same children.

Or how about LaMelo Ball and Anthony Edwards or ZIon and Ja do the same?

 

So I'd respond by saying they did dominate in OTE.

Oh but I guess they didn't put up 60ppg 35rpg 15 apg on 95% FG%, so they suck. I forgot. I'm a dummy.

This has become a boring discussion point. People can make their own opinions by watching the games if they want. Not really worth discussing further IMO as it as been discussed to death on here, and no one is having their opinion changed.

 

If there is no history of anyone with a bad shot ever becoming a great shooter - then it is not aiming high.

The most important skill an NBA player can have is the ability to hit a shot with consistency - everything else falls below that - if you can't shoot you are a liability on one end and need to be covered for - the Rockets need guys that can shoot, not guys that might be able to learn to shoot.

If you are only aiming for adequate at the 4th pick you are doing it wrong.

But they need to be a good shooter first.

DD

 

Did they? On the season hey were 6th and 8th in the league in points per game with basically 16 per game, 2nd and 3rd in the league in assists per game with basically 6 per game

Is 16/6 really "dominant' numbers for legitimate top NBA prospects when playing against 15 and 16 year old children?

I mean, the league had two 20+ points per game scorers, one being a 27 points per game scorer....they weren't them though.

If you had put college aged Zion against 15 and 16 year old children, what kind of stats would you expect? He put up nearly 23 points per game in college against legitimate competition, what would he have done against little kids?

Ja put up 24/10 in college, better than either of these two could do against 15 and 16 year old children...

That's the context I think is important when looking at how good these guys might actually be.

 

Yeah but...<stuff that won't change your mind>

There's no point in this back and forth. If that's your opinion, so be it. Perhaps you can go apply to do work for the Athletic and let them know Sam Vecenie is a fraud, and you'd do much better evaluating prospects. That idiot hasn't yet figured out the twins didn't dominate 15 year olds (nor has most of the draft experts who do this work).

(this is also targeted at others who focus on these silly extreme opinions vs the very legit points of debate)

 

So what you're saying essentially is that you don't have an argument against what I am saying here, you just feel like you have to disagree anyway because someone else thinks the Thompson twins are the greatest thing ever?

I mean, okay....I would agree there's no point in this back and forth if that's all you are going with.

 

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. Good job.

 

TS% elite, record 14-1, post season stats 17/7/9 with good defensive stats too, lock for top 5 draft pick, athleticism off the charts

"DiDn'T dOmInAtE PrEsChOolErS"

95% of OTE are 18yo or older. Players | OTE (overtimeelite.com) there's one 15 year old and he's listed at 6'10" 210 lol

I'm sure college is a higher level of competition. That's why we can name so many college players from 16 seeds. You know, guys that can buy a draft beer (but can't buy themselves a draft pick)

 

So in other words, they performed worse against untalented little kids in a glorified rec league than actual legitimate NBA prospects did in college against legitimate competition.

Even compared to others in their glorified rec league, their numbers weren't the best....shouldn't that be considered a problem?

We're not even talking about G league level of competition and 100% of what these 2 guys bring to the table is athleticism. Neither are genuinely good at anything else.

It never fails that every single year the same type of people will be fooled by flashy athleticism into backing prospects who can't actually play basketball.

 

College is legit competition? Most teams have 0 nba level prospects

 

Compared to 16 year old kids in a glorified rec league? Yes.

Is College the NBA, no, but D1 college basketball is ultimately a higher level of competition than the G league or most foreign leagues.

For example, put the best players from Amen's glorified rec league into the NCAA tournament, and they get blown out in the first round.

By far the best scorer in the OTE was named Jordan Burks....he's considered a 3 star college recruit. The second best scorer in the OTE isn't considered a top 100 college recruit.

How about the guy who led the OTE in assists? A kid from the Houston suburbs that went to Hightower High School, he was considered a 4 star recruit at one point and is considered a fringe 2nd round pick who will more likely go undrafted, but maybe we'll get to see him try to eventually earn a starting role on a G league squad.

That's the absolute best they have to offer....

When you talk about legitimate top tier NBA prospects, they should have absolutely blown that weak ass competition out of the water...but the Thompson twins weren't good enough for that, even together.

Like I said earlier, put college age Zion or Ja together on an OTE team and you'd see MUCH different results. They were legitimate top tier NBA prospects, the Thompsons aren't. The ONLY reason they are hyped is due to raw athleticism, the actual basketball talent is almost completely lacking.

 

Olajuwon came to UH so raw that Coach Lewis red-shirted him his first year. Between Guy and his staff, and especially Moses, as you point out, along with what Dream had that you can’t teach, instinct for the game, “feel” in spades, whatever it can be called. That and an incredible physique he never stopped working on (including a 7’6” wingspan that helped him play like a 7 footer when he was a bit over 6’10”), yeah, he came into the NBA a load and then some.

By his 2nd year in the league, Dream had Pat Riley in the LA locker room scratching on his blackboard with chalk, “Contain Olajuwon!” during an LA game in the WC Finals when we beat the defending champs in 5 games. I’m surprised that they let an NBC cameraman film them, but someone did. Likely once.

 

Bumping this again because OP didn’t reply to it…..

Isnt Amen already in the process of redoing his jump shot with Mike Miller? I feel like shooting is just one of those things you just have to keep practicing on… sure there are natural shooters but plenty of NBA guys have become “adequate” shooters.

 

At the end of that day… Amen represents the greatest superstar potential among the draft picks after Wemby and Scoot.

It’s certainly a gamble, but I feel like some on here are overstating how bad his shot is.

 

No he doesn't there is ZERO proof of that at all.....he can't do the most important thing a basketball player can do, and that is shoot well, the world is littered with great athletes who failed ....and all the ones that were great could shoot.

DD

 

It's clear from watching the playoffs that more than ever, 3 point shooting is critical to success in the NBA. You need great shooters in this era, not adequate.