Is There Any Doubt About Tracy Now

I'll tell you why you are wrong. First of all, one game. Second of all, we didn't do this against Indiana. You could make the argument that there were other factors that contributed to us playing like that that had nothing to do with Tmac not being in the game.

And I'll make that argument, I'll name a few things we did that have nothing to do with Tmac not playing:

1. Yao stepping out and hitting the 18 footers: first time he's done that this season, it unclogs the lane and allows people to drive. Especially after you use Yao for the pick and roll, he can pop to the top of the key or the baseline, and if he's not wide open, its going to be hard to contest him because he has a foot on everyone.

2. Ball movement in general: with Tmac back, as one of the assist leaders, this should only get better. We swung the ball around the key a few times when Yao wasn't in good position or got doubled, found Scola with a small guy on him and he went to town. Tmac doesn't halt ball movement as much as you guys like to believe he does.

3. We didn't force Yao or Artest to score: with Tmac back, we can still let the offense go in rhythm, not forcing action on Yao or Artest. Obviously you want to get Yao touches, but just don't force action.

Remember last season when Tmac went out, our offense got better and then when he came back we worked him in. We should be able to do the same things this season. And when Yao Ming went out last year, if we wern't running Adelman's offense, I don't know who's it was.

 

I did a detailed analysis last year too - and our record sucked with T-mac out and when he came back we won 22 in a row and was won of the hottest teams in the NBA in the second half.

We win one game and all the t-mac haters come out of the woodwork.

Got news for you - we need T-mac. Great win, but we need t-mac to compete with the best teams. Tonight we played well. But Luther head isn't going to have this sort of game a lot.

 

Your low IQ reasoning keeps getting us eliminated in the 1st Round of the Playoffs. All RA's offense ask is that people screen and cut. If the Big Liability and SheMac can,t pass to a wide open cutter, set a pick, or cut/role to the bucket then we are truly in trouble and Morey is an idiot for agreeing to hire RA.

Why can't Tmac run through picks when healthy, he's wide open coming off the curls driving and hitting jumpers

 

dude seriously, ask yourself that? even adelman admitted it himself. with tracy and yao, you don't run his offense b/c that takes away their talents.

so i'm agreeing with adelman here. i don't know why people keep clamoring for adelman's offense with tracy and yao when clearly adelman doesn't preach it. he just wants more ball movement with guys who play with those 2.

he tried it last yr, and it failed miserably to start the season. therefore, he kept about 90% of JVG's offense, but he simply preaches more movement with the ball.

but yet we still have posters on here clamoring for the adelman's offense in regards or tmac and yao.

 

can we trade this tracy fella already? Im sick and tired of hearing about him and his problems. He is worst than the Artest BS that he cause. This guy is just flat out old now and worn out. What a short career.

 

"Coach did a good job of demanding that we move the ball, of demanding that I move the ball," Artest said. "Yao (Ming) did a good job of finding people and guys played with confidence. We have to build on that."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/6138759.html

notice "moving the ball" and how artest admits he "hasn't" moved the ball. so please, stop.

and again, this quote also states that it's simply better ball movement, not adelman's motion offense willy nilly like it was in sacto.

better ball movement, more energy, more focus -> a better team.

 

My man, all I care about is Championships, i don't care if they run a 3 man weave offense. However, all I know is that JVG's PnR and dump into Yao and Tmac in the post gets us eliminated in the 1st Round. SCOREBOARD!!!

So if you suggest that we keep running an offense that gets us eliminated in the 1st Round then I question your Bball IQ.

We are not throwing the ball into Dream in the post. You couldn't front Dream (as u can with Yao), Dream didn't get hurt (ala Tmac and Yao).

 

The Spurs doubled Yao all night long......not on the pass but on the dribble, he did the right thing by moving the ball, we had 7 players in double figures.

It was a team win...one to be proud of and build upon.

DD

 

no, tracy and yao were not the problems under JVG, the role players were. the pathetic role players' play was the reason we got eliminated b/c everything was put on tracy and yao. that's where adelman comes in. his system fits the role players perfectly and he is willing to develop them, unlike JVG.

so that's why you keep the JVG's offense (with some wrinkles) for tracy and yao. but improve the role players.

don't you get that?

 

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APO, these were the first 2 games of last yr. notice how tracy was the only guy really running "adelman's" offense in terms of moving without the ball, and initiating crisp passing. tracy can play this offense. he can play any offense. but yao can't. rafer can't. hayes can't. battier can't. there was a reason why there were a phlethora of trade adelman early last season b/c yao was struggling mightily playing in the high post.

unfortunately, the rest of the team was WAAAY behind. after those few games, adelman admitted this and reverted back to JVG's style. however, eventually the other guys caught up and started to move and pass better, tracy simply got back and went in with the flow.

tracy's injury has held him back this year. and that's why you see him looking very slow out there. but he can play any offense you want him to. he displayed that in the clips i showed and in the 22 game winning streak and in the playoffs. he's too talented for that.

the problem is yao can't play that way. artest apparently is more of a ball-stopper than we all thought. but since tracy is gonna play with these guys, you gotta keep the JVG system for these guys. yao is at his best in the low post controlling the offense from there. tracy and yao are really effective as a combo when they do the pick and roll together...

so again, hopefully this will help.

 

but tracy does move the ball (see the 3 game road trip before he shuts it down). why do you think adelman plays tracy a lot with the 2nd unit as the season went on this year?

i do agree with you he's not moving a lot this year b/c of his knee. that's why you haven't seen the curl play (which is a JVG's staple), or the pick and roll, or the give and go. tracy does do those things.

artest didn't play without tracy the past 2 games. he still holds onto the ball a lot. this problem has been with him throughout his career and has nothing to do with deferring.

this is why i had a problem with your post. artest has been more of a ball-stopper than tracy ever has, and yet tracy is the "main" reason for the offensive struggles.

 

Yao has been able to make that since he was a rookie. In fact, that fadeaway baseline jumper he likes to go to when he gets doubled is essentially a contested 18 footer.

It didn't really have anything to do with the outcome on its own, but the combination of this and the other things I mentioned where why we won like we did.

AI leads the team in assists because he has the ball at the beggining, middle and end of the play. Alston controls the ball for a lot of the shotclock. Its not the same. Yao and Artest are as much ball-stoppers on the team as Tmac is.

We didn't win the game because of lucky three point shooting or lucky outside shots. We moved the ball around. Someone either got an open shot or a clear lane to the basket.

And one thing I forgot to mention in my last post:

4. Spacing over movement without the ball: people kill Tmac because he doesn't like to move without the ball, which is true (although Artest, Yao don't really do it either). Notice in the game that there wasn't as much movement without the ball other than the "pass it into Yao and cut to the basket" move that Head and Brooks did. What we had instead was spacing. And spacing players out works as long as you make the extra pass, and eventually you will find a guy with a mismatch or an open shot.

The fact that we are running an offense based on spacing our players means that Tmac isn't the reason this offense hasn't worked because Tmac has played well in an offense like that.

 

Both Artest and Tmac are ball stoppers, they need the ball to be effective.

Tracy can run around picks but he generally reverts to his comfort zone and holds the ball at the top of the key and attempts to beat his man one on one or shoots a jumper elevating over him.

I have said all off-season and into this season, I have serious doubts about Artest and Tmac meshing well....

I would love to trade Artest for Mike Miller.....we still have Battier for D....and Miller moves so well off the ball it would help our offense tremendously.

Tmac and Artest don't fit....maybe they will, but right now they are oil and water.

DD

 

Go to BED, u should be tired. Your simple logic said keep the JVG offense with some wrinkles. I bet that's exciting for everyone else on the team to stand around and watch Tmac and Yao jack up shots.

Then when they get tired they kick the ball out to you to shoot a low percentage 3 and we get pissed at Rafer, Shane, Scola, Artest, Landry etc.. when they can't hit wide open shots after standing around waiting on Tmac or Yao to do their thing.

Wake me up when we get out of the first round with your boy Tmac and Yao with the JVG wrinkle offense.

 

did you even read the post? we went to 2 game 7s with JVG. the problem with JVG was his lack of development for the role players and thus when they play, they sucked. we were a 2-man team under JVG b/c of that fact.

with adelman, he's willing to develop role players. it's more a balanced team.

if JVG wasn't so stubborn on using certain players, he wouldn't be fired right now.

 

Everytime,everytime after we won one game without T-MAC,there must be a thread like this, i'm tired of discussing that T-MAC hurt our teamwork or not,it's useless.We must know he's our 20M man,he's franchise, no one can change him if he doesn't want to change.

 

Don't forget the threads after he hits game winners.

 

OP, You are absolutely right..........Good post