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Is the Rockets biggest need now a passer?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by meh, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. wyo-ming

    wyo-ming Rookie

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    WE will be fine......... oh & so is the rest of the world including you......
     
  2. desi tmac91

    desi tmac91 Member

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    Definitely, I agree with the both of you. One of Trevor's most overlooked strengths was his ability to create opportunities for his teammates. Ariza was a damn good slasher to the basket and it seemed like every time he did he was passing it off to an open Luis Scola or Chuck Hayes. See his tripe double game against the Hornets for example, he did this quite often and was getting better at it.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Trump is following Hitler's playbook
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    The offense will get asset opportunities for everyone, the PG, the wings, the PFs, the Center, everyone is a passer on this team.

    Probably no one will have a lot of assists but everyone will have some.

    Gonna be so much fun to watch.

    DD
     
  4. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Brooks is just going to have to transition into more of a traditional point guard. Lowry is a good pass-first point guard but I think Brooks could be as well this year.

    Last year he was a score first PG because he had to be. He was one of the only people on our team to have the ability to get his shot whenever he wants. Battier can pass fairly decent in the post to Yao. and when Yao is out and Miller is in, he is a very very good passer on the high post. Miller will play very well with the likes of Budinger coming off of picks for open shots all day long.

    Brooks has stepped up and proved himself every year and I have no reason not to believe that this next year he can become a playmaking pg. If not, we still will find a way to make the extra pass. It is the Rick Adelman offense here we are talking about. Do not forget that.
     
  5. dartherus

    dartherus Member

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    There's a reason to have concerns...court vision is strongley correlated to IQ, and that's something not improved that much with age...
    Tony Parker had almost the same the lack of court vision he has now, improved a little his vision and improved more in other areas to make it up...but mostly he relied in his great scoring capability, ballhandling and speed....

    In AB I see a similar scenario, ignoring wide open teammates over and over (and many times for forcing a failed scoring attempt), is a clear and undeniable symtpom...

    AB has skills, speed, shooting, sure, and he could even improve his D in the future...but I seriously doubt about improving his courtvision that much....
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Trump is following Hitler's playbook
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    Court vision can most definitly improve, probably not to an elite level but enough to keep folks honest.

    DD
     
  7. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

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    When everyone is able to score, there is no real need of creating a pass as everyone will be moving to a position to score.

    Only when the offense is stagnant you need a creator, but when you have Yao, all you need is to pump the ball to him.

    Ball hugging and creating shots for others is not the RA system.
     
  8. jedicro

    jedicro Member

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    Brooks is an underrated passer. He averaged 6 assists a game once Martin joined. Bibby, who averaged 8 assists a game before joining the Kings, also averaged 6 assists in Adelman's system.
     
  9. DraftBoy10

    DraftBoy10 Member

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    Ok, this is wrong in so many ways.

    1) The title: This trade didn't help or hurt us at all in the playmaking department, so why all of a sudden is this being mentioned?

    2) Lee's not as good as defender as advertised. He's above average, but Ariza is better. Particularly on help defense, his overall size, and his athleticism. That's not to say I wouldn't have done the trade, but give credit where it's due. Ariza is a superior defender to Lee just based off of athleticism, size, and obviously reputation.

    3) We've always lacked "passers". But first off, an Adelman offense never has a true & designated playmaker. You see Mike Bibby's stats the year before he went to Sacramento? Look it up. It'll be close to 8 APG with the crappy Grizzlies. You know his average in his 4,5 year span in Sacramento with far superior talent? About 5.8 APG. The offense is based off of opportunities, some games some players will have more or less APG. Reason PGs get it the most is cause of the % of ball handling duties.

    The only thing we "lack" is a true star that can TAKE us over the top. One that can close games out for us, one that can be our best player, but not necessarily our best or highest scorer. That's what we lack. That does come in the form of Paul & Melo, the jury is still out on Iguodala and Granger in that form. Don't really think they are that clutch or superstar-esque. We need a best player, not necessarily a "best" scorer right now. And they cannot be a liability on D because arguably we'll be dealing Battier, Jefferies, Hill and perhaps Bud.
     
  10. DraftBoy10

    DraftBoy10 Member

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    This post just reeks of a lack of knowledge. First off, AB got about 5-5.5 APG on a team with about 70% of the season as the 1st option. That alone will drop his APG. Then, factor in our offensive scheme. Outside of the triangle offense, no other offense will generate less of APG from PG's than the read & react offense. Look at the post above and compare it to Bibby, and compare it to really any PG Adelman has coached.

    On a "normal" team where his best asset isn't shooting, driving, but passing and penetrating, Aaron is about a 7-7.5 APG which is slightly above average.

    In this offense, Aaron's best strengths aren't to be a Lowry, and Lowry's best strenghts aren't to be an Aaron. Aaron's strengths are that he's a ridiculously efficient & consistent shooter, that has the ability to get by his opponent. A rare combination. Why would we dare make his true strengths concede to something else?

    It's like saying Lowry should start shooting more long jumpers cause that'll help. How?

    Stick to your strengths. Aaron's shooting and quickness outmatch his playmaking, and all are quite solid, but shooting and quickness are ELITE, playmaking is a little above average. Particularly in this offense, it's more dangerous. He was 20ppg off of 45%/38%? Or something close to that? He'll be about 17 pgg of 47% & 40% this upcoming year. That's supreme efficiency from a PG.
     
  11. jedicro

    jedicro Member

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    You last 3 guys are just copying me :mad:

    GET OFF THE BROOKS ISN'T A BAD PASSER BANDWAGON! IT BELONGS TO ME!

    :p
     
  12. RedDragon01

    RedDragon01 Member

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    Just a reminder for those that may have forgotten. We're missing a couple of these guys from 2008-09, but many are still with the team. Pay particular attention to the 3rd pass. :)

    The Yao over the head is one of my all-time favorite Rockets Assists.

    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4HvZIRxajAE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4HvZIRxajAE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
     
  13. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Assist numbers aren't the most reliable data to judge a players' passing abilities unless that guy is a PG or a ball-dominating type wings like LeBron, Roy, McGrady, etc. You have to either have advanced metrics to track passing, or actually watch how they play the game.

    The key to good passing is court vision, and it is an innate ability, not something that can be learned. If you watch elementary/junior high kids play, you can easily spot which kids have court vision, which don't.

    Good passers on the team (in no particular order):
    Lowry
    Miller
    Budinger
    Hayes
    Yao (borderline good)

    OK passers:
    Brooks
    Scola
    Battier
    Martin

    Players I haven't watched enough to judge their passing skills:
    Hill
    Patterson
    Lee
    Jeffries

    Adelman's offense doesn't need great play makers. He needs smart decision makers who unselfishly move the ball quickly (i.e. BB IQ) and move without the ball. So the assist numbers usually are shared, rather than dominated by one player.
     
  14. abcd1234

    abcd1234 Member

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    I think length is the biggest need. We lost some length with Ariza going, and to compete with the Lakers we will need length.

    Bringing in Iggy would be perfect, and it makes sense all around. Lets see if Morey can make something happen before training camp.
     
  15. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Athleticism, size, and especially reputation does not make a guy a good defender. Athleticism and size are only tools. What makes a good defender is discipline, smart, and effort.

    Chuck Hayes has few physical tools other than quick hands and strong lower body. But he is a great defender. Battier is not athletic by NBA standard. But he's a great defender. Chuck and Shane are the best defenders on our team. Neither guy is athletic and long.
     
  16. RedDragon01

    RedDragon01 Member

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    Let's not forget this play, either. Chuck's fairly underrated as a passer, but here he shows his point-center abilities. :)

    Forward to about the 25 second mark.

    <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hjYdUHEwPXQ?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hjYdUHEwPXQ?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
     
  17. dharocks

    dharocks Member

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    I'm kind of perplexed by the fact that many of you are saying that Adelman's system doesn't require good passers. Those old Kings teams WEREN'T great passing teams because of the system they ran, they were great passing teams because many of the Kings were great passers.

    Christie (4.4), Vlade (4.1), and Webber (5.0) all had seasons in which they averaged quite a few assists before they ever played for Adelman, and Bibby had a couple of 8+ assist seasons. Playmaker/creator types definitely make this offense hum. I'm not saying we need to have four guys like that on the floor, but more than one (two when Miller's one the floor) would be nice.

    As for the Aaron Brooks passing thing, does he remind anyone else of a smaller version of what Jason Terry was in Atlanta?
     
  18. Yao4REAL

    Yao4REAL Member

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    This team need a creator or another superstar beside Yao. Someone that you can pass the ball to and stand back and just watch like Carmelo. But i am also afraid that the defense is going to be very thin with Brooks Martin and Melo.
     
  19. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    I think what they mean is, Adelman does not need a dominant passer, a guy who averages more than 8 assists per game. Adelman does need GOOD passers all over the floor. He needs all 5 guys to be good decision makers, moving without the ball, cutting, hitting the cutter, etc.... and can shoot.
     
  20. monster

    monster Member

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    A true creator would be nice, as well as a steady rebounder/shot blocker.
     

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