Is The Conservative Movment Flirting with FAscism?

of all your compassionate posts, this is one of your best. family, in the end, is all that matters.

 

You forgot to add "Bushmasters" as well...

 

Except didn't Jesus say something about "Rendering unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's" in regard to paying taxes. In other words people should pay taxes.

 

DUDE!!! Check out http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/manifesto1.html. Secular humanists are real and their beliefs fall in lock step with the liberal movement.

Why do you feel it appropriate to disrespect Christians for standing up for their beliefs?

 

I believe anyone who has ever been audited would disagree with you. I do agree however, that ABSOLUTE capitalism would probably be a disaster. I do favor less government involvement though.

The strength of the Euro is less indicative than the GDP growth which has long been stagnant. Also, their unemployment rate doubles ours.

 

This really happened. It might still be happening. There are no penises in textbooks, unless it's biology or art. There are certainly no subliminal penises. Why do some Christian fundy ladies spend all day searching for dong? And why do they always find it? That's my question.

(Of course, there's every chance that I am a secular humanist, I'm covering up a conspiracy, and I hide subliminal penises all over the place.)

 

How am I delusional? The American Humanist Association is real. They do deny Christ. Most liberal politician's view are identical to this organization's views. Whether by coincidence or design, liberalism and humanism are virtually the same.

If I seem to be speaking for Christ, I don't mean to. My responses are based on my reading of the Gospels. You are right that economically speaking, neither of us no the will of God.

I most certainly can and will argue your interpretation of the facts. If Social Security were such a great deal, then why do most congressmen opt out?

I don't wish to remove the safety net Social Security provides the elderly, but I would allow younger people to opt out. I would still have employers pay the match, but absolve the worker of the responsibility as long as the worker agreed to relinquish any claims to SS.

 

There may have been some misled women involved in this situation, but again, why do you feel the need to be so disdainful to Christians? Are we less human to you. Seems elitist and bigoted to me. Its interesting that I'm still apologizing for past sins that aren't my own, and you call them "fundy ladies."

 

I feel like I've entered Bizarro World.

Being a liberal and a secular humanist, as I understand the term, I happen to know many liberals, having had that pleasure for decades. Unlike myself, an agnostic, with some exceptions they overwhelmingly believe in religion and a "higher being," of one kind or another. That hasn't stopped them from being liberal, or being humanists. With all due respect, have you ever considered getting counseling? You seem more than a little paranoid. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it can be harmful, in my opinion, when taken to extremes.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

This has worked out amazingly well! I get to make fun of silly ideas, and you get to feel like a martyr!

D & D = A WIN-WIN FORUM

 

Bill:

Secular Humanists are not all anti-christ, and you are ignorant in making said accusation. I'll let wikipedia do the talking, as it is more eloquent, and less likely to be a condescending b*stard than myself:

Shocking - a christian fundamentalist being overly broad, paranoid, and intolerant of a position ambivalent to their own. For the record, I like to consider myself a humanist, and I could care less what you or anyone else believes in, as long as it does not interfere with government, or my inherent human rights.

 

Here was your statement...

You are delusional if you think that Christ would have been conservative by today's standards. You further dig your hole below...

This last is where you are simultaneously delusional and talking out of your a$$.

The VAST majority of "liberal" politicians attend Christian churches and are active members of their churches. Your bald-faced lie that "liberal politician's" [sic] are automatically aligned with secular humanism is a delusion.

But it wasn't just economically speaking. You came out and said that Christ would be a conservative by "today's standards" even though conservatives have opposed everything that liberals have tried to do, even when they are directly in line with Christ's teachings.

Helping the poor and downtrodden - Liberals have done this over and over again despite the objections and fights against from the right.

Ending overt discrimination - Liberals accomplished this over the howls of the GOP.

Loving your fellow man - No politicians are good at this, but there certainly seems to be a lot of hatred for liberals coming from conservative camps.

Jesus was a MAJOR liberal in his time and it is likely that he would be disgusted with the things that the conservatives are trying to do in his name today.

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!?!?!

If I could opt out and get into Congress' retirement plan, I WOULD TOO!!!

Have you seen the golden parachute those guys get when they leave office?

This is the way I would go if I were wanting to destroy SS too. Unfortunately, we will nto be able to do that until we make some MASSIVE changes in how we do business in this country.

If we encouraged saving instead of consumption, abolishing SS would be an easy transition over the next 50 years or so. With a consumption tax, people woul get ALL of their paycheck and would be able to choose what they were taxed on. A consumption tax would also encourage people to save money to buy things rather than putting the product and the 18-24% tax on a credit card too.

Over the course of time, with a long term strategy, we could do away with SS, but letting younger workers simply "opt out" as per the Bush plan, is a non-starter since it would require borrowing at least ANOTHER trillion dollars and tacking it on to the national debt.

One thing that we could do to help this transition would be to pay off the national debt. Once that happens, we would have over $200 billion per year that we now spend on interest payments to finance the "opt[ing] out" of younger workers.

Today, it will not happen.

 

If 10% is good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for the gubmint.

 

Do you really think that the Caesars were limited to 10% taxation?

Christ clearly said to give to the government what they asked (or told) you to give. He made no 10% limits. 10% was the amount to tithe to the church AFTER you gave your taxes to the government.

 

If you're looking for to fulfill your penis fetish in a history textbook, you might be looking in the wrong place.

 

Gentlemen's Clubs are definitely mo better than libraries for that kind of thing....unless you hit the library room at Treasures!!

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp

 

Do they have a military history section? I'd like to get me some John Keegan.

 

Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity. link

Humanist Manifesto I
The Manifesto is a product of many minds. It was designed to represent a developing point of view, not a new creed. The individuals whose signatures appear would, had they been writing individual statements, have stated the propositions in differing terms. The importance of the document is that more than thirty men have come to general agreement on matters of final concern and that these men are undoubtedly representative of a large number who are forging a new philosophy out of the materials of the modern world.

— Raymond B. Bragg (1933)



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The time has come for widespread recognition of the radical changes in religious beliefs throughout the modern world. The time is past for mere revision of traditional attitudes. Science and economic change have disrupted the old beliefs. Religions the world over are under the necessity of coming to terms with new conditions created by a vastly increased knowledge and experience. In every field of human activity, the vital movement is now in the direction of a candid and explicit humanism. In order that religious humanism may be better understood we, the undersigned, desire to make certain affirmations which we believe the facts of our contemporary life demonstrate.

There is great danger of a final, and we believe fatal, identification of the word religion with doctrines and methods which have lost their significance and which are powerless to solve the problem of human living in the Twentieth Century. Religions have always been means for realizing the highest values of life. Their end has been accomplished through the interpretation of the total environing situation (theology or world view), the sense of values resulting therefrom (goal or ideal), and the technique (cult), established for realizing the satisfactory life. A change in any of these factors results in alteration of the outward forms of religion. This fact explains the changefulness of religions through the centuries. But through all changes religion itself remains constant in its quest for abiding values, an inseparable feature of human life.

Today man's larger understanding of the universe, his scientific achievements, and deeper appreciation of brotherhood, have created a situation which requires a new statement of the means and purposes of religion. Such a vital, fearless, and frank religion capable of furnishing adequate social goals and personal satisfactions may appear to many people as a complete break with the past. While this age does owe a vast debt to the traditional religions, it is none the less obvious that any religion that can hope to be a synthesizing and dynamic force for today must be shaped for the needs of this age. To establish such a religion is a major necessity of the present. It is a responsibility which rests upon this generation. We therefore affirm the following:

FIRST: Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created.
SECOND: Humanism believes that man is a part of nature and that he has emerged as a result of a continuous process.

THIRD: Holding an organic view of life, humanists find that the traditional dualism of mind and body must be rejected.

FOURTH: Humanism recognizes that man's religious culture and civilization, as clearly depicted by anthropology and history, are the product of a gradual development due to his interaction with his natural environment and with his social heritage. The individual born into a particular culture is largely molded by that culture.

FIFTH: Humanism asserts that the nature of the universe depicted by modern science makes unacceptable any supernatural or cosmic guarantees of human values. Obviously humanism does not deny the possibility of realities as yet undiscovered, but it does insist that the way to determine the existence and value of any and all realities is by means of intelligent inquiry and by the assessment of their relations to human needs. Religion must formulate its hopes and plans in the light of the scientific spirit and method.

SIXTH: We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of "new thought".

SEVENTH: Religion consists of those actions, purposes, and experiences which are humanly significant. Nothing human is alien to the religious. It includes labor, art, science, philosophy, love, friendship, recreation — all that is in its degree expressive of intelligently satisfying human living. The distinction between the sacred and the secular can no longer be maintained.

EIGHTH: Religious Humanism considers the complete realization of human personality to be the end of man's life and seeks its development and fulfillment in the here and now. This is the explanation of the humanist's social passion.

NINTH: In the place of the old attitudes involved in worship and prayer the humanist finds his religious emotions expressed in a heightened sense of personal life and in a cooperative effort to promote social well-being.

TENTH: It follows that there will be no uniquely religious emotions and attitudes of the kind hitherto associated with belief in the supernatural.

ELEVENTH: Man will learn to face the crises of life in terms of his knowledge of their naturalness and probability. Reasonable and manly attitudes will be fostered by education and supported by custom. We assume that humanism will take the path of social and mental hygiene and discourage sentimental and unreal hopes and wishful thinking.

TWELFTH: Believing that religion must work increasingly for joy in living, religious humanists aim to foster the creative in man and to encourage achievements that add to the satisfactions of life.

THIRTEENTH: Religious humanism maintains that all associations and institutions exist for the fulfillment of human life. The intelligent evaluation, transformation, control, and direction of such associations and institutions with a view to the enhancement of human life is the purpose and program of humanism. Certainly religious institutions, their ritualistic forms, ecclesiastical methods, and communal activities must be reconstituted as rapidly as experience allows, in order to function effectively in the modern world.

FOURTEENTH: The humanists are firmly convinced that existing acquisitive and profit-motivated society has shown itself to be inadequate and that a radical change in methods, controls, and motives must be instituted. A socialized and cooperative economic order must be established to the end that the equitable distribution of the means of life be possible. The goal of humanism is a free and universal society in which people voluntarily and intelligently cooperate for the common good. Humanists demand a shared life in a shared world.

FIFTEENTH AND LAST: We assert that humanism will: (a) affirm life rather than deny it; (b) seek to elicit the possibilities of life, not flee from them; and (c) endeavor to establish the conditions of a satisfactory life for all, not merely for the few. By this positive morale and intention humanism will be guided, and from this perspective and alignment the techniques and efforts of humanism will flow.

So stand the theses of religious humanism. Though we consider the religious forms and ideas of our fathers no longer adequate, the quest for the good life is still the central task for mankind. Man is at last becoming aware that he alone is responsible for the realization of the world of his dreams, that he has within himself the power for its achievement. He must set intelligence and will to the task.

[EDITOR'S NOTE: There were 34 signers of this document, including Anton J. Carlson, John Dewey, John H. Dietrich, R. Lester Mondale, Charles Francis Potter, Curtis W. Reese, and Edwin H. Wilson.]

Copyright © 1973 by the American Humanist Association
link

 

Not true. History is filled with dicks.